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Scribing Skirt Boards

I love to hear old-timers tell stories. At a JLC Live stair building seminar taught by Jed Dixon, I talked with Jed and Don Jackson (editor of JLC) about installing skirt boards and how I was taught to install the treads and risers first, and then scribe the skirts over the top of them.

Don told me that they had a guy who taught that method in one of their Live events. Pre-built stairs were set up on stage with the treads and risers butting against the drywall on the closed side. The instructor told the audience that he was going to scribe the skirt over the in-place stairs.

During one of the sessions, an audience member raised his hand and said: “I’m sure it can be done, but for the time it’s going to take, and with the fit you’re going to end up with, it’s much better to install the skirt first!”

The instructor then asked the fellow if he had a $20 bill. The guy pulled one out of his wallet and the instructor pulled one out of his wallet. The instructor then asked the skeptic if he was willing to risk his $20 bill. The deal was that if, after the skirt board was installed, the skeptic could slip the $20 bill into any of the joints, he’d win the $20. If he couldn’t, he’d lose it. Game on!

In approximately 30 minutes, the skirt board was cut and installed while the step-by-step method was explained. The instructor left the event $20 richer.

This story fascinated me, and I asked Don Jackson what the instructor’s name was. “Don Zepp,” he replied. It brought back nostalgic memories. Don Zepp (who passed away recently) taught me the same method 30 years before, at the Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades in Media, PA, 15 miles west of Philadelphia. At the time Don (“Boss” to his students) was 36 years old and, after graduating from Williamson himself in 1953, went to work for a large millwork company. Shortly thereafter he started Reliable Stair Company. In the following years, prior to teaching at Williamson beginning in 1964 (which he did for 27 years), his company site-built and installed over 7,000 flights of stairs, most of which had scribed skirt boards. I’ve had many good teachers over the years, some in the classroom and some on the job. Don Zepp was the best.

I moved to South Carolina fourteen years ago from Pennsylvania. In Southeast PA., I lived and worked for 25 years building new homes and renovating old ones. The standard in PA was to pre-order the stairs once the total rise from finish floor to finish floor was known. Typically, within a week, a great looking set of finished stairs would arrive on the job. They could have open risers on one or both sides, with bullnosed bottom treads, could accommodate any wall thickness, and be any width and species of wood that you specified. I literally installed hundreds of these stairs.

The job required four guys (minimum) with strong backs, one of whom could swing a 20-oz. framing hammer. The width of the opening that the stairs fits into is the width of the stairs plus the thickness of the finished wall material on both sides of the opening. In SC, the standard, by-and-large, has been: site-built stairs with strings installed by the framer, and the finish stairs installed by the trim carpenter or stair builder who comes in after the fact. I’m sure there are variations of these methods and procedures across the country.

A finished skirt board on a flight of stairs is one of those tasks in finish carpentry that remains in prominent view, always open to critique. It’s critical that the workmanship is of the highest caliber. There are several ways to accomplish the task when pre-fabrication in a shop is not an option. Given the choice, the tools, and the right situation, I would prefer to rout the risers and treads into the finished skirt, then glue, wedge, and fasten them from the underside. However, that’s not always an option.

Most often, in new construction, the site-built stairs I’ve seen have skirt boards installed with the treads and risers butting into the skirt. It is most efficient (and cost effective) to assemble the components by gluing and fastening the ends of the treads and risers from the back side of the skirt (when possible).

In years gone by, the finish stairs were often one of the last tasks to be performed, after the finish wall materials were already in place, making it impossible to get to the back side of the skirt. At Williamson Free School in PA, I learned how to install the finish treads and risers and then scribe the skirt over them. Over the years, this has been a great technique to know!

A few years back, I had to completely rebuild six half-flights of stairs in some high-end condos that had riser differences of up to one inch! The rough stringers were cut and installed from sub-floor to landing, and, after the fact, over an inch of Gyp-Crete was installed on the first floor, with a thin laminate on the landings. The carpets, cabinets, appliances, and all finish walls were installed before the problem was discovered. It wasn’t an option to tear out the finish walls to get to the closed end of the risers and treads where they butted the wall. I opted to re-frame the lower set of stringers, install the treads and risers, and scribe the skirts over the top. The stairs were stain-grade yellow pine, so putty and paint wasn’t an option.

Although I spend most of my time running jobs, and hadn’t built a finish set of steps in years, I believe I would have kept my $20 on all six sets.

Scribing the skirt board

To scribe skirt board over installed risers and treads, start with a straight skirt board laid on top of the points of the treads with the bottom corner against the finish or sub-floor, and the top corner above and beyond the top tread nosing. Finish nail this piece to the wall (leave the nail heads and part of the nail shank exposed for easy removal) and mark two registration lines on the wall, on the top of the skirt—one above the bottom tread and one above the top tread.

(Click any image to enlarge. Hit your browser's "back" button to return to this article.)

Using an oak stick for a scriber (with a slightly rounded bottom, so it contacts the treads and risers like the point of a standard scriber)…

…mark the height of the rise, or slightly more (use the highest riser if there’s a variance) and put a sharpened nail or brad through the stick with the point protruding slightly.

Next, scribe the level line of each tread (it’s important that you hold the scribe stick plumb), starting at the bottom and finishing at the upper landing tread.

Now, take the skirt board off the wall, cut the bottom scribe mark, and slide the skirt board down the wall until it rests on the floor. Make sure the top of the skirt is lined up with the registration marks you put on the wall. Finish nail the skirt to the wall again, leaving the nails proud for easy removal.

Next, change the brad point from the riser to the unit run dimension (or a little more).

Scribe from each riser face moving up the stair from the bottom. Again, it’s important to hold the scriber level as you work your way up the flight.

While using the same scribe setup, mark the projection of each stair nosing.

Next, remove the skirt from the wall and, using a sample tread block and a sharp pencil, draw the nosing, using the slight arc you previously scribed from the tip of the nosing as your reference point.

It’s time to start cutting. Start on the first riser line and cut every riser on the plumb line, working up the flight. Next, cut the treads on the level lines, starting at the top and working your way down. Remove the triangular piece as you go. Use a coping saw or jig saw to cut out the nosings.

TIP: When cutting, hold the saw at a slight angle to achieve an undercut, except for the top and bottom plumb cuts that the base will die into.

Once you’re finished cutting out for the treads and risers, slide the skirt into place and check for the “$20 fit” (a $1 bill will do, in a pinch). I like to have just enough material left above the nosing to allow some flexibility in the skirt, and also enough to receive a carpeted edge, if it’s not a finish set of stairs. Usually 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 in. is good. Depending on the rise/run and size of the original board, you may have to rip some material off the top edge.

Next, use a level to mark a plumb line on the skirt board at the top and bottom that matches the height of the flat portion of your baseboard. These lines will mark the vertical cuts for the skirt-to-baseboard transitions.

After cutting the base transitions, it’s time to nail the skirt in place. Nailing through the skirt at the nosing will draw it up tight. I also pre-drill each section of the skirt where it fits against the tread, close to the riser, and install a 4d finish nail.

Finish up by adding the base, base cap, and cove moldings. You’re done!

One advantage that I’ve found in scribing the skirt over the treads and risers is that the joint between the skirt and the finish stairs is not staring you in the face as you walk up the steps. It’s the same principle as starting the base or crown at the far end of the room and fitting to it.

The installation time is reduced with this method, since only the skirt board will need to be cut accurately. The time-consuming process of scribing and fitting each individual tread and riser is eliminated.

If it’s your first time, it might be a good idea to start with a set that will get carpeted, or with a painted skirt. It will give you the opportunity to practice before you try this method on a stained skirt board. Once you get the hang of it, you’ll get quick and accurate.

It’s not the perfect method for every installation, but for some jobs, it’s efficient and workmanlike!

(Drawings by Wm. Todd Murdock)

• • •

AUTHOR BIO

After graduating as a carpentry major from Williamson Free School in 1969, Norm spent 13 years working as an architectural draftsman, framer, finish carpenter, framing foreman, and superintendent for a production homebuilder.

For the next 13 years he was self-employed in residential and light commercial construction, building additions, homes and whatever came along. They did everything from the footings to the roof, excluding the utilities. Norm had a great partner, and they worked together for 25 years.

In 1996 Norm moved to SC to teach drafting and carpentry for 3 years at Bob Jones University.

In 1999 he started working part-time as a construction inspector, and full-time as a commercial superintendent for a contractor building churches, retail spaces, multi-family dwellings, and schools.

Looking for a change of pace, in August 2010 Norm went into business at age 61. The first project of the new business was to completely finish his present house. It’s the 8th house he’s built and lived in, not including the 3 renovations before the first house. He has the ambition and energy to do one more, but Sherry, his wife of 38 years, has given him a choice of another house or another wife—facetiously, he hopes!

For enjoyment, Norm works on his home, does smaller construction jobs, serves in his local church, reads, and works on the homes of his three daughters.

Norm is pictured here with Sophie, one of his 7 grandchildren.

Comments/Discussion

255 Responses to “Scribing Skirt Boards”

  1. Josh

    Unbelievable! This couldn’t be more timely! I’ve never had to do this but it just got added into a job we’re doing in 2 weeks! Thanks a million for the pointers Norm!

    Reply
    • Gerry

      I have a door at the top of my stairs. Any ideas on how to mount the uncut skirt board for scribing? I was considering temporarily mounting some small lengths of 2×6 on the wall that the uncut skirt board can be attached. That would allow the uncut skirt board to project though the door opening.

      Reply
      • Norm Yeager

        Gerry,
        The 1×6 idea is probably as good as anything else I can think of. An additional thought would be to scribe a cardboard or Luan template for the top section of the skirt where it butts the door trim and then overlay it on the section of skirt you can scribe

        Reply
        • Kris Bochenek

          How did you end up doing it? I am up against same thing with door at the top.

          Reply
      • Kris Bochenek

        What If I cut the board where it butts up against door upstairs, scribe the treads, cut the bottom off to touch the floor, this would drop the board and the face that was butting against the door would not butt against the top riser. Am I correct in this assumption?

        Reply
  2. Norm Yeager

    Josh,
    I look forward to hearing how you do on your first skirt scribing job. When Gary called me to ask if I’d write the article he started by asking “is this Norm Yeager the stairbuilder?”. My response was “this is Norm Yeager and I’ve built many stairs but I consider the Stan Foster’s, Jed Dixons’ and Keith Mathewson’s of the carpentry world – the stairbuilders”. There are many others as well who do it full time with great expertise. I’m a long time carpenter that has built stairs as the need has arisen. This method of scribing skirts can be done by any skilled carpenter with consistently good results.

    Reply
  3. Josh

    Well Norm… thanks for taking the time to answer the call from Gary and write the article! I’m only 27 and while I have all the tools I need and enough knowledge to be dangerous and think I know it all, I lack about 20-40 years of experience that most guys around me all possess! I can’t tell you how thankful I am for all the JLC articles and books, thisiscarpentry.com, Gary’s website and other resources that allow me to learn new concepts that increase my profit and allow me to take on jobs I wouldn’t be able to do without the things I continue to learn. This makes a huge difference with the builders that we work for, as they continue to entrust us with more of their trim and mill work allowing us to stay busy all year. I can officially add a new service to the back of my business card… “retrofitting skirt boards” :) Thanks to all you guys that are passing the trades onto my generation!

    Reply
  4. Charles

    Great Article! I work primarily on older houses (many pre-civil war) and have had to retrofit skirt boards on several occasions using this device-
    http://www.amazon.com/Wheaton-Tools-PL600-Stringer-Layout/dp/B0000224Q0
    (though without the issues one reviewer on amazon brought up) which actually works fairly well even on old and uneven stair cases. Many of these projects involve complete disassembly repair/rework/restructure and reassembly of a stair case.
    I appreciate the elegant simplicity and common sense involved in your method and I will use it on my next project that requires it.
    Thanks Again.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Charles,
      I never saw the stair Genie tool until today. It looks like it would do a fine job. One difficulty in scribing skirts occurs when the treads are cupped. That’s one of the reasons to leave only an inch to an inch and a half above the nosings so the skirt can “flex” into final position. The scribing does effectively deal with the vatiances in heights,plumb, level, etc.

      Reply
  5. Kent Brobeck

    Norm, I remember talking with you about this very thing last year on the JLC forum. Really an awesome article! It was very clear and well written. I’ve though about this from time to time….thanks for finally shedding light on it for me. Keep on keepen on!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Kent,
      I’ve seen many of the pictures of your jobs on JLC Forums. Your work is second to none, making your commendation even more meaningful.

      Reply
  6. David Kalin

    I have done it the same way, but with a Multimaster (or a japanese trim saw), I cut off the end of each nosing using a scrap of skirt board (with 1/16 ripped off it for the blade width) against the drywall and slid the skirt board in from the front. It’s easy to get a good cut of only an inch or so long then chisel it off. This avoids the time consuming round cuts which is where your greatest chance for error lies. And it allows for the expansion and contraction of the solid skirt board. But GOOD JOB! Whatever works! If it looks good, it IS good!
    [img]http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IMG_0687_1.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IMG_0686_1.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/IMG_0688_1.jpg[/img]

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you David, very nice looking work. I agree, it’s the final product that counts. There isn’t always one way to get to the finish line.

      Reply
    • Matt Follett

      I’m with you David. My margin for error is always in the nosing. A good razor saw & a scrap piece of wood to save you a lot of time. Not to say this doesn’t look like a great technique; will have to try it next time.

      Good article Norm :)

      Reply
      • Norm Yeager

        Matt,
        When I cut the tread I cut past the intersecting point of the riser to where the nosing starts it’s radius. After the triangle is removed I cut the straight portion of the bottom of the nosing overhang with my handsaw, or jigsaw. That leaves only the radius portion of the nosing to deal with. I usually make one straight cut to the middle of the farterest point of the nosing as well. The radius can then be cut easily with a coping saw, or “nibbled away” with the jig saw. I think the coping saw is ror accurate. For me I believe it’s quicker than cutting off each nosing. Thanks for the kind words.

        Reply
  7. Jim Sear UK

    Excellent article Norm.
    I loved the background history and simple step by step explanation of the methodology. The graphics make it so easy for anyone to follow. When I’ve done this type of work (a couple of times a year) I do the same as David Kallin’s method of notching out the nosing because I reckon it makes for fewer potential cock ups. But I do get your point of reducing joint sight lines. Once again, an excellent article.
    Regards Jim Sear UK

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Jim,
      Thank you. I’ve always felt that there’s three ways to do things. Right, wrong and different. That was one of the short speeches I always gave to the tradesmen that would show up on my jobs. “I’ll let you do it right or I’ll learn when you do it different but I won’t let you do it wrong” I’ve seen the nosings notched many times with excellent results.

      Reply
  8. David Collins

    Norm, The quality of the writing and graphics of this article is of the highest standard. Beautifully communicated! It seems that excellence in one area of a man’s life results in excellence in other areas as well. I must comment that there is no magazine that can compete with this sort of instruction and I hope TIC continues to attract writing of this caliber.
    If you are a subscriber to TIC, tell every carpenter you bump into to sign up.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      David,
      Thank you for the kind words. Gary and his staff made this article enjoyable. I can’t claim any credit for the drawings. Don Zepp showed them to me . I sent Gary simple pencil line sketches and Todd made them look great. I do tell every carpenter I bump into about JLC and TiC. I used to tell the students I had that if they get to be 50 and still loved what they do for a living they would be blessed. I’m 62 now and still feel the same way. My next tool purchase is a coping foot !

      Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Kreg,
      The kind words and endorsements from many men I’ve been reading for years are humbling. Thank you for your years of informative and inciteful carpentry knowledge. As good and maybe even better is your positive spirit and sense of humor. I love your posts and videos.

      Reply
  9. Richie Poor

    Excellent and extremely useful article. Another one of those ‘tricks of the trade’ you think about but don’t fully comprehend until it’s demonstrated properly. Thanks, Norm!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Richie Poor,
      Thanks for the kind words. I still remember the sign over the carpentry shop at Williamson. It read “don’t teach the tricks of the trade, teach the trade”. Sorry, I couldn’t resist that old memory. I understand what you’re saying. Had it not been for many men along the way who were willing to teach me some of their techniques and tricks this learning process would have been much more difficult. I’ve met many along the way who’s spirit was “I learned it the hard way and that’s the way the next guys going to learn it” We can be thankful for men such as Gary and the numbers of JLC contributers and posters who are willing, proficient and anxious to help the next man.

      Reply
  10. LocalHero

    Great article Norm. Funny, I grew up in Springfield, Pa…next door to Media. And now I live in SC too. I’m in Charleston area; where are you?

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Local Hero,
      I’m in Greenville, aboiut as far away from Charleston as you can get and still be in SC. I know the Springfield area very well. Thanks for your kind words.

      Reply
  11. Alex

    Norm,
    Great article, this is the kind of article I live for. The description and pictures were so easy to follow. This is the kind of thing that makes me excited to be a carpenter again. I’m gonna try this just for fun!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Alex,
      Thanks. You can try it “on the cheap”. Rip down some corrugated cardboard to 11&1/4″ and use that for your skirt. I did that all the time when I taught. Lumber was expensive, cardboard was cheap. We would lay out rafters, stringers, skirtboards, wall plates, etc.in a shop setting. The students could make all the mistakes they were inevitably going to make without the pressure of costly material expense. It works great on one dimensional cuts. On jack rafters, etc. I’d use either foam or salvaged lumber. Each exercise would find the problems to be solved becoming a little bit shorter so each piece of material got used repeatedly until it was too small to use for that purpose. When that time came the piece would have a lock or hinge installed into it.

      Reply
  12. Tom Bainbridge

    20 american dollars? worth every single penny thanks so much.
    I have the exact same job in 6 weeks time.
    The savings I make will be sent to the RNLI
    The RNLI are similar but different to the American coastguard,
    they are funded entirely by charitable donations.
    The rnli guys go out in ANY weather and are not paid a penny.
    Their boats have no insurance and no body or the govt will insure them.

    Norm… you have made it possible for me to support these guys more than I normally do.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Tom,
      What a great honor it is to have a small part in your support of the RNLI. It’s great to hear of an organization of people willing to sacrifice to do the rifght thing. Thanks for all your inciteful knowledge on the JLC Forums. It still amazes ne that we can learn from one another almost instantaneously, although separated by borders and 1000’s of miles. I guess that’s is just a sign of my age.

      Reply
    • Bob Scott

      Tom,
      What a great guy you are!
      I hope your good deed inspires others to “pay it forward” as too few people do these days.

      Next time I’m on England I’ll have to look you up and buy you a pint. I’ll be te Yankee drinking the bitter with a top.

      Bob

      Reply
  13. Joe Stoddard

    Great article Norm -I’m sold. I think this is the way to go. I also like David K’s idea of nipping the tread overhang with multimaster- that does avoid the worst part of it.

    I never met him, but I learned about some of Don Zepp’s techniques from another Williamson School grad, and even had a chance to put a couple of them to work on projects years ago. Amazing how much impact one man who is devoted to teaching can have. I’m sorry to hear he passed away – RIP Don.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Joe,
      Don Zepp was an incredible teacher who never had a formal days instruction (to my knowledge) of how to teach. He had the heart and the ability to look into your eye and know whether you were comprehnding what he was saying. I’m not sure that can be taught. It may be something that some can pickup after years of experience.
      Don took over teaching at Williamson from Mr. Heckler who taught there for over 35 years and was himself a Williamson graduate. That was quite a heritage for a young man like me who had no background building whatsoever to be exposed to. More than anything Don taught me that it was an honorable thing to know the trade and practice it to the best of your ability.

      Reply
  14. Norm Miller

    Nice to see another “Norm” doing good work! Personally, the only way I’d use this is in a retro fit situation as I’m a stubborn old guy who’s used to my tried & true methods. You didn’t say what type of saw you use to make your final cuts, though I’m guessing a nice sharp handsaw. All that said however, years ago I was hired to run a large crew of carpenters & helpers to trim over 120 units at Disney’s new town in Kissimmee, FL called Celebration. Apparently, the framers never heard of spacing the stringer away from the wall with a 2×4 allowing room for the sheetrock and skirt. I spent several hours coming up with essentially the same method as yours, then another few hours teaching it to one of my trim guys. Your article would have been handy! Great job!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Norm,
      Years ago I only cut skirts with a sharp 10 pt. handsaw. The last few I’ve done I used my Bosch jigsaw with a reversed tooth blade that cuts on the downstroke. If you go slow and keep pressure down on the saw it does a good job. ” Different strokes for different folks” If the stairs get carpeted and a few minor splinters wouldn’t matter a regular blade would work fine also. I don’t believe scribing skirts can consistently duplicate the quality or integrity of a routed stringer, but that’s not always an option. After Williamson I went to work for a production homebuilder and prefabbed stairs were what we used for the main stairs with site built stairs to the many basements which were the standard in the SE Pa. area in the 70’s and 80’s. When I went on my own in the early 80’s we did many basement renovations where we had to make the existing stairs look good. Scribing the skirts was an effective way to do a workmanlike job.

      Reply
  15. Gary Katz

    Norm,
    I would have responded sooner—and wish I’d been the first to say this: Thank YOU for an astounding article. The technique is superb, but the simplicity of your description makes this article a true gem. Todd Murdock did an excellent job on the illustrations, too, and the drawings make this whole story sparkle.

    And THANK YOU DAVID COLLINS! Yes, all of us at TiC—in fact the whole community of authors, editors, and readers—hope that more carpenters will join our effort to save techniques like this one so they aren’t lost to the next generation of carpenters.
    Gary

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Gary,
      It was a pleasure to work with you and your staff. Todd desrves all the credit for the outstanding graphics he created out of chicken scratch. We went back and forth a few times and his spirit was one of wanting to get it perfect. Robert Walker makes it all readable. I’m excited to think of what the future will bring for you and TiC.

      Reply
  16. Keith Mathewson

    Norm,

    Great article and a new approach for me. I’ve cut the nosing off in the past like David described. Your method for hiding any connection gap makes more sense to me, I’ll certainly try it the next time.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Keith,
      I am not a “stairbuilder” in a league with yourself and the many others who write, post and comment in JLC and the forums. Scribing skirts will be a piece of cake for you. It’s something that any finish carpenter, with a little practice can become proficient at. It’s been a valuable thing to know and use over the years.

      Reply
  17. Jay Lefkowitz

    Norm,
    Thank you for a well written and illustrated tequnique, always appreciated.
    I wonder what the technique would or could be if instead of a skirt board, a finished panel against the side walls. I did one of those last year. I measured all the aspects of the rise and run, nose but I was not as tight as I would have liked or expected. The sheets were standard 4×8 and the height restrictions did not help in fitting the panels. I had to work with three panels for each side and butt the panels together along with the stair tread rise, runs, and nosings
    Being a stair to the basement there was the usual amount of objects to cut around and clear. I wish I had a better plan for tackling the problem. In the end the client was pleased with the job, however I was not.
    I have scribed before and have had good luck, in this case I couldn’t manuever the panel boards in position due to the height and space restrictions. This is why I opted to measure each rise, run, and nose projection. There was gaps to this procedure that eluded me and I just kind of wonder why. Just a thought, I’m not losing sleep over it.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Jay,
      Thank you for the kind words. Just thinking out loud I believe I would have scribed a cardboard or Luan template and after I had a tight fit then overlaid it over the panels, possibly with them laying on the floor. It seems as though the rest of the fits would be easier to deal with than the stairs.

      Reply
  18. albert

    I want to thank Norm for his article,knew that it could be done have never taken the time to do it. If you know only two things in carpentry level and plumb all else will go smoothly..

    Reply
  19. Bob Scott

    Norm,

    Great article! Thanks to you, Todd, Gary and everyone else that made this happen. TIC really is the best magazine out there!

    Have you ever been to Woodruff? It’ about 30 miles from you I think rt.103 or 301 something like that.
    I used to go there once a year for the week after Mothers day to an event called Joe Nall. It’s the premier Model airplane show in the world. Think oshkosh only RC models instead. Todd would love it.

    Bob

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Bob,
      Thank you for the kind words. I have been through Woodruff but not to the airplane show. I was visiting Tyger River Prison to see their Carpentry program. I hope to spend a few days there this year and do some short classes on roof framing and stairbuillding.

      Reply
  20. Greg Gibbons

    Norm

    Well done Norm, very insightful and as mentioned the illusrations are great. Very time sensitive, as I was just looking at our stairs which lead to the rec room and wondering how best to tackle it. This would be it.
    Carpet has already been installed, would you recommend adding a 1/4″ or lift the carpet?.

    Much Thanks, If it wasn’t 11:00 pm, I might have started this minute, lol

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Greg,
      I’m sorry I missed responding to your question. I would definitely remove the carpet if it’s an option without ruining it. For three reasons #1. It will be difficult to scribe with accuracy with the carpet in place #2. For the first time scribing a skirt if everything isn’t perfect, it will be when you reinstall the carpet. #3 I wouldn’t want carpet between the skirt and the treads and risers, it will make fastening the skirt more problematic and removing the carpet at some later date more difficult.
      Thank you for the kind words.

      Reply
  21. Evan

    Mr. Yeager,
    As all the others have said, thanks for a great article that is really priceless when it comes to be used. I just wish I had more time to work with more experienced people so I could learn it from someone instead of trying to figure it all out myself. I have built several staircases over the years and when I look back at how much I did not know on the first couple, it kind of surprises me sometimes. I also appreciate the work that goes into these articles as they are worth more than we pay for them and that is for sure. Every time I read one of these articles or an issue from JLC I learn something that can help me to manage the small construction business we have. Thanks to Gary Katz for telling me I should subscribe to JLC, and without attending one of his roadshows I would not have been introduced to TIC either.
    Thanks to all who put so much work into this TIC.
    Evan

    Reply
  22. Norm Yeager

    Evan,
    Thank you for the kind words. The thing I learned at Williamson probably more than any other was the importance of understanding the “why” of what you were doing and not just the “how”. Experience is a good teacher but I don’t think it measures up to understanding the theory behind the technique, whatever it is. An example: Each year when I taught we had a day when prospective students would visit class for a day. Typically their idea of learning carpentry was to learn by doing. While that’s one way of learning I never thought it was the best way.
    I had a small classroom (appx. 20′ long) and would ask for a volunteer to take a tape measure and find the center of the room. It usually went something like this. The “newbie” would measure the length of the whole room and divide by two and then measure that distance out from one side to find the center. The clock was stopped when he chalked a center line. It usually averaged about 90 seconds.
    I’d take a second volunteer and ask him to also find the center of the room. Before he would try to beat the first guiy, using the same method I would stop him. I directed him to stand where he THOUGHT the center of the room was and without moving push the tape to one side wall and mark 10′, then do the same in the opposite direction and mark 10′. Now without moving he had two marks on the floor, usually about 12″ apart. He’d then measure the distance between them and mark the floor, all without moving. The clock usually stopped at around 40 seconds.
    Lastly I would use the second technique and could typically stop the clock at 30 seconds.
    Experience works but it’s time consuming and not very efficient. Theory alone is more efficient than experiential trial and error. When you combine the right theory plus the experience you get the most efficiency. Most of the time you could see in their eyes that they got the principle.

    Reply
    • Hartley Edmonds

      A recent addition to my collection of “old saws”seems apt. “A smart person learns from his mistakes. A really smart person learns from other peoples’ mistakes”. I’d have used large dividers, but the bored stick and pins yield more consistent and accurate results. Thanks for a great article. This old dog still loves a new trick!

      Hartley

      Reply
      • Norm Yeager

        Hartley,
        Sorry I missed replying to you until now. I have several handsaws that I keep sharp & available. It is surprising how few handsaws you see on jobs anymore. On production jobs, a hammer is even becoming rare.
        My first two weeks in trade school 43 years ago were spent filing 8&10pt. crosscut saws and 5 or 6 pt. rip saws. While I see the necessity and inevitability of change I think the “specialization” we see in the trades today minmizes the opportunity for learning the trade. We can be thankful for JLC & TiC, and similar resources that seek to educate the next generation of craftsmen.

        Reply
  23. Tim Schrock

    My 1st comment/question on TIC. Norm, when you cut the skirt board what type of saw are you using? ie miter saw, circular saw? Particularly when you mention the back beveled cut on tread and riser lines. My experience has been marginal at best when using a circular for these finish cuts. Great website and very helpful articles – keep’im comin’ Thanks Tim

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Tim,
      I’ve cut many skirtboards with a SHARP 10 pt. handsaw. I don’t think you can beat a handsaw for accuracy. However I’ve also used a jig saw set at a 5 degree or so angle. Depending on the material you’re cutting a fine blade works well with minimal or no splintering. If I am concerned about the splintering possibility I’ll use a reverse tooth blade that cuts on the downward stroke. You have to put some pressure down on the saw that’s not necessary with an up cut blade. With a fine tooth blade the saw will have only minimal tendency to jump on you. On my Bosch saw I keep the orbital setting to the minmum. That slows the cutting but increases the accuracy.

      Reply
      • Ray Menard

        My hand saw of choice these days -actually I have a few versions – are the Japanese made Silky. What a joy to use, and yes in just such an application. Quiet & efficient & accurate. My Silkies have changed the way I work just as has my Festool collection (which is still quite modest).

        Thanks Norm for a good lesson in the craft & a nod to you for being a trooper at responding to every new post. Thought you were finished huh :) ?

        Reply
        • Norm Yeager

          Ray,
          I almost missed this reply. I’m not familiar with a Japanese “silky” I have a couple pull saws which I find to be very accurate. Does the silky cut on the pull stroke ? If it does my concern would be it the skirt is stain grade that there might be some minor splintering on the finished side of the skirt. I guess if they were “minor” enough they could be sanded out and would be a good trade off for the improved accuracy. Thanks for the kind words.

          Reply
  24. James Olsen

    Norm,
    Good article, my grandfather taught me this method 12 years ago but he called it the two stick method and had separate sticks for rise and run. It was taught to him by his father. I’m a fifth generation carpenter but no longer do it for a career. I hold the teachings from those who went before me close to the chest.
    Thank you!
    Jim

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      James, Thank You,
      What a great heritage! You have been able to glean from multiple years of experience passed down through your family. If I’m not careful that could make me envious ! I assume that when you say you “hold the teachings of those who went before close to your chest” that you revere the knowledge and talents of master tradesmen. So do I. One of my main goals in life is to die broke ! By that I mean I hope I can give away as much of the knowledge and all of the money I’ve been able to accumulate. Timing of that is problematic because we seldom get to choose our last day on earth, but it’s still my goal and I try to work toward it each day.

      Reply
  25. David Kalin

    WOW!
    Great feedback!

    Random thoughts: Norm, large, flat cardboard is hard to come by unless you buy a lot of refrigerators haha.

    With a slap on the forehead, I recently discovered 1/8″ MDF. 8 bucks a sheet here in Hawaii, probably less where you are. You can even make 3-D full size models of stuff!

    With stain-grade, I recommend always using a practice piece first, then you have a fail proof template. Better safe than sorry. Always fear failure. Always.

    Incidentally, instead of scribing, try this method I gleaned from stone installers:
    1. Rip down the 1/8″ MDF or plywood into 1.5″wide strips.
    2. Plug in the hot melt glue gun
    3. Score and snap off and lay the strips against the treads and risers. Overlap and hot melt them together on the flat to make a full size template along the wall. You can even scribe them for cupped or bowed treads, and make little ‘notes to self’ right on the template. Tack the long straight top edge to the drywall along a chalk line @ the width of the board, butt join and overlay a scab for long lengths. Strengthen the whole thing with truss like triangles, then lift it off as one piece, take it back to the shop, lay it on your stock, trace the outline and start cutting. While at the shop, shoot it twice with Magnamax satin, take lunch, deliver it back to the jobsite DONE!

    4. For supreme exact precision, use an exacto knife on blue tape instead of a pencil, saw cut 1/16 from the line, then mini-grind or beltsand to the line, always backcutting.

    If you use a pencil, use a #3. It keeps it’s point all day.

    Somebody stop me.

    Re:“…close to your chest” to me implies a good poker hand selfishly kept secret. I disagree. I may have read it wrong, (I think Jim meant “close to the heart”), but sharing of knowledge is your one sure ticket to immortality. I always remember fondly the old guys who generously shared their tricks and techniques with me. I see their faces each time I’m tasked to cope crown or lay out a hip roof, or make sure to remember to subtract that last tread height from the first riser height (or is it the other way around??lol).
    I can still clearly see the guy’s face that taught me how to lay out a stud wall for drywall 50 years ago. Oh yeah, that was my dad.

    I’m also in my sixties, and when I was forty, I was turned down at a high end jobsite because I was too young. “Ya gotta be fifty to work here” the foreman informed me. With my twenty plus years experience at the time, I was pissed, but now I hold by the same standards for my high end jobs. The first 20 years is boot camp, grasshoppers.

    Sorry, kids, but this is one profession where reverse age discrimination is prevalent.

    It’s GOOD to be old!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      David,
      Where I taught was close to a major appliance outlet so I didn’t have to buy the refrrigerator boxes, they set them aside for me and I picked them up on a regular basis.
      It’s also pretty surprising how much material you can get free if you’re willing to scrounge through a lumber yards dumpster.Often once or twice a year when they do inventory they throw away all kinds of stuff that you wouldn’t be able to afford to let students practice on if you had to pay for it.
      Each year the college would completely renovate a dorm. In that process they would replace appx. 100 3′ solid core doors. Instead of letting them get tossed into a dumpster they came to the warehouse I used as a shop. The uses for those doors were multitudinous. We planed off the hinge sides and rehung them on 2×6 frames, some which were purposely out of plumb & square. I’d screw them together at the edges standing vertically and have the fellows run baseboard, chair rail and even crown around all types of corners. We’d install cylinder & mortise locks.
      I am familiar with the MDF and have used it from time to time for templates. I used to teach them ticksticking and fitting all sorts of panels to a brick , stone, and siding walls.
      It has always been my conviction that you can replicate real life situations in a shop and give more more variety and conditions than you get on any one job, particularly when you have time constraints , budget & weather concerns. If a mistake is made, the world doesn’t end, nor the job for that matter. You start over again with the material that didn’t cost anything but time to begin with.
      I’ve never tried templating a skirtboard prior to installing one. I understand the principle. If you scribe the skirt carefully and cut accurately in my opinion there’s no need. All the irregularities are accounted for. Each time you template something I see the potential for accumulating error when transferring the template marks. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve templated many things. I just haven’t found it necessary to do it for skirtboards. Frankly, it’s been several years sinc I’ve done it. The last 10 or 12 were on my last two houses. Maybe if I were to get a job requiring a scribed skirt of stain grade material I’d think carefully aboout doing templating it.
      Lastly, I too think Jim meant close to the heart. I’ve worked with men who held information “close to their chest” – it wasn’t enjoyable. One foreman would roll up the prints each time you’d get close. It taught me something. I know how it made me feel and I vowed I’d do my best never to make someone else who wanted to learn feel that way.

      Reply
  26. Shawn

    Norm,

    Great article and very helpful. I am a GC specializing in remodeling and I have a great trim sub that handles all this (and he was the first to comment…Josh) so I am glad we are “learning” the same thing.

    Maybe I can practice on my own stairs…might might my wife happy…or not.

    Thanks again for a great article.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Shawn,
      Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad to hear that Josh was enthusiatic. He seems anxious to learn. I know all about keeping your wife happy. I’m in the same position. I really do enjoy working on my own projects, at my own pace, which has slowed down somewhat over the years. I’d be interested to know how you or Josh do on your foirst skirtboard scribe job.

      Reply
  27. Sam Marsico

    Norm,
    Thanks for writing this article.
    Simple and clever, the way carpentry should always be.
    What is the font you used in your sketchup drawings?

    Reply
    • Gary Katz

      Sam,
      Todd Murdock did all the Sketchup Drawings and the font he uses is: ArchiTxt. It’s a great one, huh?
      Gary

      Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thank you Sam. As Gary said, Todd did all the sketches. I sent him single line pencil sketches and he took it from there

      Reply
  28. gary hugo

    Awesome tip on skirt boards. Iam always looking for new or forgotten tips that helps me do a better job. I will never forget this one.

    Reply
  29. Brian Moloney

    I’m reading this, starting a stair project this week and this is info is really helpful, my last comment was not posted, but thanks again!

    Reply
  30. Michaela

    Thank you for these instructions. Every time I go up my stairs, I cringe at the broken drywall along my stairs and wonder how I can install skirt boards. Now I know!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Michaela,
      If it’s your first time scribing something like this I’d start carefully. By that I mean, rip down some cardboard to 11&1/4″ and make a trial run. Any appliance store should be able to get you a refrigerator box. You can lay it ou, cut it with a utility knife and see how it goes. It’s an inexpensive way to get a start prior to committing big $ to a finish piece of material. Even if it’s not long enough you can do a section of the stairs. Instead of two marks lay the cardboard at the top of the stairs and make one mark and the bottom for the second mark. Then snap a line that touches both marks and use the line to “reregister” when you move the shortened skirtboard. Best of luck.

      Reply
  31. Laurie McDougall

    WOW! what a great technique!!!! I did a stair case last summer for a client, the stairs were covered with tile and she couldn’t get anyone to do this project.

    I used some popsicle sticks and super glue to make a template. It worked pretty good, but it was not dead on. (template flex) The client was happy though!

    I can see where the method in the article will be faster and more accurate. I’ve got a job starting on Saturday that requires this to be done.

    Three long stair cases, both sides on carpet. Thanks for that advice on taking the carpet out! My client is having the carpet replaced.

    Not sure about how I would price this one, I figured 2 hours per stair “side” plus materials.(400 per stair case)

    Sooooo I’ll know soon if I’m workin for a buck an hour! LOL client is happy with my bid I guess, I got the job!

    Thanks!!

    Laurie.

    Reply
  32. Brian Moloney

    What if the bottom riser and the top riser heights are different but the other risers are the same, will this method still work?

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Brian,
      Set the sharpened nail point to the height of the highest riser. This principle is common to all scribing tasks, not just skirt boards.
      For example, if you are scribing a trim board to a stone wall, tack the trim board plumb, adjacent to the stone wall your fitting to, touching the fartherest projection of the stone. Then set the scriber width from the i/s edge of the trim board to the deepest indentation of the stone. When you scribe it’s important to hold the scriber level.
      In the stairs you reference the stairs were not built correctly. A common code requirement is that individual riser heights cannot vary by more that 3/8″. When riser heights vary they usually occur at the top or bottom riser for one or more of the following reasons.
      1). The unit rise was not determined by equally dividing the TOTAL RISE from FINISH FLOOR to FINISH FLOOR.
      2).The thicknesses of the finish floors (whether top or bottom) was not accounted for when the stringer was set at the top, or cut at the bottom.
      If you are working with an existing set of stairs your options are limited without rebuilding the stairs. If they are in a house under construction I would point out the mistake to the contractor and have the stairs fixed before you become a part of the problem.

      Reply
  33. Chris

    Wondering if you have ever tried drilling a 1″ hole with a paddle bit or a Forstner tomdealmwith that problem area?

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Chris,
      I’ve never drilled out the nosing primarily because I’ve always been able to cut them accurately with a coping saw. I understand that there may be different ways to achieve a good result. If you drill it you have to center the hole precisely, hope the nosing is a perfect radius and risk tearout with the drill bit. I believe cutting with a coping saw is more controllable.Just my opinion.

      Reply
  34. Benjamin Berk

    Another home run from TiC!

    I used this technique today to install skirt boards on both sides of an exterior concrete stair on the entryway of an old victorian in San Francisco. We are replacing the newels, curbs and balustrades, and the first step was to install the skirts.

    Thanks to this website and Norm Yeager I set to the task in an “efficient and workman-like manner,” with zero head scratching, no wasted material, and was done in less than half the time my boss had budgeted. Thanks Norm.

    Gary et al, I offer you my deep gratitude and appreciation. I’ve built two sets of deck stairs since I found this site, and I used story poles to nail the riser heights to near an eighth inch of variance. I avoided error with the calculator and cut 1x templates on the chop saw. (Those templates are a god-send when dealing with 12′ + pressure treated 3x12s.)

    Thank you for sharing these techniques of the trade, so a newbie like me can learn to be efficient, orderly and workman-like and achieve higher quality results and greater satisfaction in a job well done.

    Reply
    • Gary Katz

      Benjamin,
      I’m glad you ‘got it’ and used that skirt board method! That’s the purpose of the magazine! Thanks for your encouragement.
      Mike Sloggatt told me recently that he doesn’t think framers would use that template method–they’d just cut one of the stringers and not waste the time. But these days, when you’re installing stringers on 12″ centers for some decking products, getting them all within 1/8 in. is important and makes the whole job easier. That’s tough to do if you use a piece of 2x as a template, and draw lines with a 1/4 in. pencil! :) JUST JOKING!!!
      Gary

      Reply
  35. Laurie McDougall

    Ok, a while back I posted here about having a stair skirt job to do, and was going to try the scribing method as described by Norm Yeager.

    I did everything described, but it didn’t fit so well. I discovered that the bottom of the board where it comes to a point – the intersection between the riser and the tread, was “nipped off” or it had that appearance.

    I fiddled with it and got it to fit- sort of. I couldn’t figure out what I did wrong, so on the next several pieces I was really careful about my scribing. It was closer but still no screamin heck.

    I put the skirt board in place, then used a 3/4 stick as a spacer, and scribed from that. I got closer, but it did not address the variance in the individual treads, ie: cup and waves.

    It wasn’t so critical on that job as the stairs were going to receive carpet, however I know that when clients see work they expect it to be really neat. Or at least I do!

    I re-checked my rise, and run, then checked my stick with the pencil – yup dead on. Or as close as one can get, the riser height varied by close to 5/8″. What to do?

    Well I had budgeted 3 days for this project, it took me 5 1/2 (Doh!) fortunately the next job got delayed so I had the time, and the client wasn’t living in the place yet. This was a firm quote job, not by the hour.

    I still made money but I gotta figure that those extra few days were a learning curve! so no education is free :D

    Ok time moves on…. last week another stair skirt job came up, ok, this time it’s on hardwood flooring that the owner had installed on the stairs. I went down to Lee Valley and bought a $99 scriber (I love toys)

    Set it up, scribed, did it all very carefully. SAME PROBLEM!!!!! holy cr*(! the scribes themselves were really close, but I had that 45 deg problem again. What’s going on?? dunno.

    I had to pull a few other tricks out of my bag to get this to fit. I placed the almost fitted pieces in place, then used my little brass wheels/scribers (again Lee Valley) they are meant for this type of thing, with a small hole exactly in the middle for your pencil.

    You put your pencil in, then roll the scriber along. I have a kit, cost about $11 bucks, and it has several sizes. So, re-scribe, vertical, horizontal, nose projection, but NOT the underside of the nosing.

    Re-cut, and it fits. Ok, I had to get this done so I couldn’t fiddle around all week figuring out what went wrong.

    However I remain convinced that Norm’s method is quicker, one scribe, one cut – move on.

    Attempting a link here, I hope this works
    :https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wSI_0XFTWWI/TgdwZcCpyfI/AAAAAAAAADc/e3DRxj13lJ4/s128/IMG_0676.JPG

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cDtT0Pz7qCU/Tgdw3NpyMbI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/spoZ2ORN0oU/scribe3.JPG

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vNnR6d3y2I0/Tgdw8g3sGcI/AAAAAAAAAFk/MhsauZSepLY/s512/IMG_0703.JPG

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-37WiQ_a4KtA/Tgdw_8deGhI/AAAAAAAAAGE/l02SDSUBS6c/s128/IMG_0708.JPG

    I don’t know if I need all of these links or just one!

    Subsequently I “think” I now know what is wrong, but I haven’t had a chance to prove it to myself. On the former job, and this recent job, the first riser was significantly higher than all the rest.

    Most of the risers were 7 5/8″ to 7 11/16″, except the first one, that was dead on 8″. I am wondering now if I should have used 8″ for my tread scribe? would that solve the issue?
    There were some variances in the runs as well, approx. 3/8″ – 10 1/16″ to 9 5/8″ approx.

    What’s the solution? should I have used 8″ instead of 7 11/16″? or something else that I don’t see.

    Thanks!

    Laurie (John)

    Moderator: please let me know if the links are correct, this is a shot in the dark for me :D thanks.

    Reply
    • David Dunn

      I just tried this on a piece of MDF. The first time something similar happened to me. But I noticed before the cut.

      On my staircase, the scribers need to be set longer than the longest rise and longer than the longest run. Otherwise the little triangle shows up.

      Reply
  36. Norm Yeager

    Laurie,
    Sorry it’s taken me so long to respond. I mention in the article that when you set the nail in the oak stick for the rise and the run to set it just a little bit bigger. I should have explained it more thoroughly. It’s critical that you use the highest riser and the longest tread when there’s a variance, and there always is. If you don’t use the largest dimension in each case there will be a triangular void on your scribed skirt in the corner where the tread meets riser. It’s the same principle when you scribe a piece of stock to an irregular surface. You must set the scriber to the farthest distance from the edge of the stock to the deepest indentation of the wall/top or whatever you’re scribing. Otherwise the piece you’re scribing and the surface you are scribing to won’t touch along the entire length. It will be short of making contact by the distance that you should have set the scriber to.

    Reply
  37. Mark

    I am working on my first skirt board retro-fit and found this and thought it was a life saver.

    However, it quickly dawned on me that it will not work as my job has a door at the top of the stairway. There is no room to have the uncut skirt board extend beyond the top of the stair. (same problem on the bottom if you are doing an inside corner with pie shaped stairs). No room to slide the board up or down when switching from scribing the run to scribing the rise.

    What if the skirt board was first cut to length and the first and last riser also cut? Then raise the skirt board twice the height above the stair before scribing? Would that work? Not sure I am visualizing it correctly.

    Maybe I cannot scribe it after all and will just have to measure and layout everything after all. Or use a partial template that covers everything but the last stair or two and measure and layout the last two stairs without scribing them.

    Any hints?
    thanks

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Mark,
      Sorry it’s taken this long to respond. I can understand that you have a difficult problem here. I don’t have a ready answer, but, here is what I would do. I’d make a template out of cardboard with the longest pice I could get that met the door at the top. I’d scribe that and get it fitting good and then I’d scribe the top step separately on another template and piece them together. You’ll be using the technique in the article for all but the top tread and riser. Granted, there’s always more room for error when you’re transferring marks from a template to your final skirt. You’ll probably have to fiddle with it a little to get a tight fit. One other possibility is to just let the board run past the door opening if it’s only a couple inches from the wall the skirt will be fastened to. You won’t be scribing exactly where the skirt will end up but it will probably be close enough that with a little work it will fit. If you have carpeted steps I believe both methods will get it done on the first try. Hopefully someone with more experience/know how will comment and teach us both a better way.
      Norm

      Reply
  38. Nate Metcalf

    Mr. Yeager,
    Hey, this is Nate Metcalf one of your students from BJU. I have been asked to help start and possibly direct a carpentry program and I need your help and advice. I would love to have a conversation with via phone or e-mail. you can reach me at nthnmetcalf@yahoo.com.
    Thanks!
    Nate

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Nate,
      Good to hear from you. I’ll help you in any way I can. Call me anytime.
      Norm

      Reply
  39. John

    Mr. Yeager.
    This is the best explanation I’ve seen after poring through dozens of dicey links :-).

    I’m going to be attempting this task on my townhouse stairs soon (which include a ‘switchback’) — I’ll be sure to do some practice runs with a bunch of old mdf I’ve got lying around (thank goodness), but could you clarify something for me?

    I’m not grasping yet (maybe will when I start cutting) the use of the scribe. You say to set it to the largest rise and run (okay, I understand that). But in the figures you show, it looks like you use that rise marker (and run marker later) on each step. If the steps have rise variation (say 1/4″), *how* does the skirt end up fitting properly? [As I said, I’m sure I’m missing something totally obvious, but…. HELP?]

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      John,
      Scribing a skirt board is no different than scribing anything else, just a little more daunting when you first look at it. Imagine your scribing a vertical board to a stone fireplace. You align the board vertically parallel to where you want the edge to land after you’ve cut out the scribed section. Now, set the width of your scriber from the edge closest to the stone into the deepest indentation of the stone. The distance you’ve just set the scriber at represents the highest riser on a skirt board. If you account for the deepest (and highest) distances you want your finished boards to move the lesser distances will be cut away when you cut on the scribed line. If you follow the instructions as written ,being careful to keep the skirt on the registration marks you’ll end up with a good fit. If you dont’t set the scribe stick to the highest rise and the deepest tread you’ll end up with a missing triangle where tread meets rise when you install the skirt. Hope this helps

      Reply
  40. Pat G

    Norm: thank you very much for such a clear explanation and great diagrams. I am attempting this (out of $ necessity) on my townhouse and from terror in ignorance I have, having read this article, come round to cautious confidence in the procedure (if still somewhat shaky on the skill level). Wish me luck! Re: sharing; just read that some high-powered scientists are starting to use public/free sharing sites to publish their results. It seems the world is finally re-learning the benefits of sharing. I’m glad that some people, like you, never forgot.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Pat,
      I’d appreciate hearing how you make out. If you have problems post it and we’ll figure it out. The skill level will come with practice.

      Reply
  41. Freddy

    About 18 months ago I came across this issue of absolutely needing to skirt a long flight of stairs. I had never even seen one up close to be completely honest with you. It turns out after much thinking and brainstorming (somehow I didn’t come across your article as I always research my options before proceeding with something I’ve never done before, but I digress) I ended up doing something very similar to what you describe and it turned out quite well. I’m glad that it turns out I wasn’t a nut after all for doing it that way. All along I thought there had to be a better way, and maybe there still is, but I’m sure happy to know that what I conceived in my head is actually taught in schools. The hardest part for me was cutting around the stair nosing. Fortunately, I get to do it again. I have a client whose stairs have been butchered so here we go again, I trust better armed now… Thanks for the post!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Freddy,
      The nosings are challenging. I would cut the skirt with a handsaw or saber saw along the scribed line until I came to the start of the nosing’s radius. At that point I would typically cut the radius with a coping saw. It’s a little slower than a saber saw, but it’s pretty hard to let a coping saw “get away” from you

      Reply
  42. Gary

    Hi Norm. I echo the comments above about the excellence of the article and the graphics.
    I am now covering two sets of carpenter built stairs (treads and risers) with oak and want to do the skirt board as well.
    I purchased 3/4″ oak and oak nosing for the treads and 1/2″ oak ply for the risers.
    The skirt is slopped up with old paint and looks bad. Also I do not want to narrow up the stairs by adding 3/4″ riser on each side. I just want to re-face the existing skirt and not add too much to its thickness.
    Therefore, can I use 1/4″ oak ply to cover the skirt using your method? I am thinking about scribing and installing the skirt first, and then capping the treads and risers, being careful to scribe each tread and riser, so that I get them close.

    On the treads (and risers) my intention is to make a simple jig out of 3 pieces of one by. The first will be about a half inch less than the stair width. Then I will take 2 short 1×4 and butt them them against each side of the tread against the stringer and run two short screws into the long board. I will then transfer that onto the new tread.

    I would like it of you could add to your presentation, walking us through the entire process of converting carpenter built stairs to finished stairs by refacing them.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Gary,
      No reason you can’t scribe skirtboards out of 1/4″ material. When I taught carpentry we did it all the time. On an existing set of stairs I woould still install the treads and risers first and scribe the skirts over top of them. It makes the line of sight into the joints more forgiving then staring straight at you when you walk up the stairs. Same principle as starting baseboard or crown at the far end of the room. If you opt to cut the skirts first I think your idea for the template is fine. Personally I always woul cut the treads/risers a half inch + or – larger than needed and then scribe them in place. Same principle as fitting a large inset widowsill.

      Reply
  43. Lindsey

    I’m sure it works well when the run and the rise are consistent and the treads are flat & level. The stairs in my older house were built from plywood (very approximately done) and covered in tiles. Due to the poor job of building in the first place and the slight variation in thickness of the mortar under the tiles, each step is different, none are level or plumb. When I lay the straight board on the edges of the steps it contacts the first 5 steps then slowly gaps until there is a 1/2 inch gap between the board and the top step which means there is a slight arch to my stairs. This affects the positioning of the board when I cut off the bottom and slide it down. I can’t make it line up with my marks on the wall. I get it as close as I can and scribe the stair rise but the line I scribe doesn’t connect with the back of the run line. Aaaaaarrgghh. Probably best if you are the one who built the stairs in the first place and did it right.

    Reply
  44. Norm Yeager

    Lindsey,
    The key to scribing the skirt is to follow the instructions to the letter. In no way an I trying to be condescending. It does seem counterintuitive that it will fit in your situation, but it will!. A couple important things up front. 1). Make sure your skirtboard has a straight top edge. 2). Snap the line on the wall so that the top edge of the skirt can slide along the line and not contact a high nosing. You may slide the skirt on the tips of the risers to see how it sits on them and then set the bottom of the skirt just a hair above the nosings and get your upper and lower points to snap the line on the wall where the top of the skirt will sit. This line acts as a registration control. Once you’ve got the line on the wall the rest goes together like clockwork. Your concern about the treads and risers being uneven doesn’t make the job undoable. In fact scribing, whatever the material or situation is all about fitting material in spaces that aren’t consistent. It’s important that you check all the risers and all the treads for the one with the largest dimension (highest riser, widest tread) and set the nail in the scribe stick just a hair more than that dimension. If you don’t you’ll end up with a missing triangle section of skirt where riser and tread meet. It also helps when the stairs are particularly uneven that you leave only about 1&1/4 ” above the tips of the nosings so you can “spring” the skirt into place. You can do all your scribing with a full width board and cut the top off prior to installation. If in doubt try it with a piece of cardboard ripped to the width of a skirt, or a piece of 1/4 ” Luan. Depending how many riser you have you may have to use a couple pieces fastened together. That’s ok as long as they can remain straight. You can do it, it will work.

    Reply
  45. James Fish

    Norm,
    I’m in the middle of a large high end trim job in Northern Idaho…Stringers are 1″ superior alder, treads 2″ fir, risers 3/4″ fir. I was planning to scribe treads and risers to skirts until coming across this article…now I’m rethinking how to approach this. I would really like to learn more about the technique of routing in treads and risers. Any direction to previous articles or literature on this would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    James Fish

    Reply
  46. Norm Yeager

    James,
    Fine Homebuilding and Journal of Light Construction have both published good articles on routing stringers in years past. I think you could search their archives and for a reasonable price download the information. There’s also a book by Craig Savage on Stairbuilding that shows routing stringers step by step if my memory serves me correctly. In my opinion routing is the best way to build a set of stairs. When that isn’t an option scribing the skirt is a viable alternative.

    Reply
    • James Fish

      Thanks Norm,
      I think I’m going to stick with a wall to wall scribe for this application. The biggest reason is that the 2″ fir risers are certainly going to shrink away from a scribed or housed stringer. I think I’ll have a tighter joint with the passage of time if I go wall to wall. I appreciate your prompt reply, I found some helpful articles and I will keep these new ideas ready for the next go round.
      Happy scribing!

      James

      Reply
  47. Norm Yeager

    I think you’re correct about the thick treads shrinking away from a scribed or routed stringer. I’m not a stairbuilder in the same league as many of the tradesmen who’s articles I’ve read. Scribing skirts is something any decent carpenter can do well with a little practice. If the skirts aren’t already in place I think I might try a hybrid. If you cut the last 1/2″ of the treads down on both ends to 1″ thick and they were all the same length it would make for an easy dado cut on the stringer/skirt which the tread could house into but shrinkage wouldn’t be seen. Just a thought. I’ve never done it but I enjoy building things in a different way to solve problems. It’s one of the reasons I’m still enthusiastic about being a tradesman after 45 years.

    Reply
  48. Tom Kernen

    Thanks Norm ! my stairs have been without a skirt for 6 months now and thanks to you i am diving in ! hopefully i will have a picture to send you soon ???? thanks for the great help !!! Tom

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Go for it Tom. If you want to try it with a little caution before you commit to a final skirt try scribing first with cardboard or Luan as your skirt. When I taught I had the students lay out rafters, wall plates, stair stringers, story poles, etc. on “cheap” materials all the time. Mistakes were inconsequential. I could tell whether they understood what they were doing on a piece of cardboard just as easily as I could on a piece of rough or finish limber. If they made a mistake we just started over again.

      Reply
  49. Gerry

    Does the scribing jig require modification to scribe accurately over commercial carpet and pad previously installed?

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      I’ve never scribed over carpet. I have scribed plenty of skirts over treads that had carpet installed after the fact. I would round the edge of the scribing stick that contacts the carpet so that you can press it into the carpet without it snagging/catching as you move it. Hopefully there will be enough “play” in the carpet that when you cut the skirt it will crush down the carpet fiber and slide into place. It should be more forgiving than hardwood. I’m interested to hear how it works for you.

      Reply
  50. Norm Yeager

    Something that I’ve noted on the drawings that could look better in my opinion. It has nothing to do with the scribing process. Whenever I installed a newel as shown on the right side top of stairs I always got the newels with the longer bottom sections. I believe the newel should be notched out and extend down the wall so the skirt and return nosing dies into it, instead of the skirt dying into the wall finish and the newel dying onto the top tread

    Reply
    • Wm. Todd Murdock

      Norm,

      You bring up an excellent point! In the original illustrations I added a stock 4010 newel post to the drawings because it’s what I had on hand at the time.

      Using a newel with a wider base allows it to extend down through the skirt and definitely creates a more visually appealing transition. I’ve attached a new image that I think shows what you are talking about.

      Thanks for sharing another great tip!

      Todd

      Reply
      • Jason

        I have to install stair skirting on box stairs ending at a doorway. How do I cut the top of the runs since they butt against the Sheetrock and have no room to extend as shown in this article. Any help will be appreciated.

        Reply
  51. Norm Yeager

    Todd,
    That’s perfect ! It looks better in my opinion but also makes the newel post installation rock solid. Two minor thoughts. Typically I would move the newel post slightly to the right so if the stairs were carpeted the carpet would die into the newel and not stick out past. I would also run the base cap on the underside of
    the skirt and die into the newel. You have done a great job !

    Reply
  52. Norm Yeager

    One additional newel post location thought. The top & bottom newels should be located so that the handrail dies into the center of them with the ballusters plumb and the bottom o/s edge of the baluster in line with the i/s edge of the bullnose return. There’s a little bit of juggling to get it all correct. That’s why I always made a full scale drawing on anything like this. The last bib job I did had some 46′, 6000# timber trusses. Between these trusses were timber purlins that TJI’s sat on. The ceiling was all T&G. This roof line over the main part of the building had to line up with the mechanical wing of the building that had conventional trusses, with piggybacks on top and a slate roof on top of everything. There was no room for error. All the truss shop drawings were sent to the job for approval. I was told to sign and send them back immediately. I refused. I laid everything out full scale on the floor slab. The conventional trusses and the piggybacks were inches off from lining up with the timber trusses and TJI’s. It caused a week’s delay but the truss manufacturer visited the jobsite and concurred that his trusses were incorrect. It all worked out perfect in the end. Never underestimate the value of a full scale drawing.

    Reply
  53. Elizabeth Kane

    Well my problem is that the stairs came away from the skirt board and have left gaps on the riser as well as the step, any suggestions for repairing or hiding this?

    Reply
  54. Elizabeth Kane

    I am adding a picture of the gaps where the stairs have left the skirt molding. Thank you for any advice you may give me.

    Reply
  55. Norm Yeager

    Elizabeth,
    That certainly is a problem ! It appears to be a structural problem more than a fit and finish problem. Can you post a picture of the whole flight, particularly where the bottom stringer bears on the floor. This may be more that you’d want to fix by a cover up. Maybe a larger picture will give us a better clue as to what has caused what we see in your picture

    Reply
  56. Ryan sheets

    Norm,
    I’ve been following this article for some time and love this method finding it very efficient. I have a customer that believes a standard tongue and groove method creates a “better built high end stair set”. I’m pretty stuck on this method and am a finished carpenter. I’ve never taken the time to build using tongue and groove method. Do you have an opinion which way is better?

    Ryan

    Reply
  57. Norm Yeager

    Ryan,
    By “tongue and groove method” do you mean a routed stringer where the treads and risers are routed into the stringer, which also serves as the skirtboard ? Typically the dadoes are tapered on the underside of the tread and the back side of the risers then shimmed and glued into place. If that is what you are referring to then I agree with your customer. In years gone by scribing skirts was very common, but not so much anymore. With the availability of dedicated stair machines and high powered routers often its less expensive and a better job to “pre manufacture” the stairs and have them delivered to the job, or build them that way on site. As I mention in the article I’ve installed 100’s that were built that way. I don’t recall a problem with any of them. Where scribing is best in my opinion is where it’s not possible to get a large/heavy set of premade stairs into position, or you’re renovating an existing flight of stairs and to rip it out represents logistical and cost prohibitions. Just my thoughts. Let me know if I’ve misunderstood your question.

    Reply
  58. Terrie

    Hi Norm,

    I recently thought about adding skirt boards on both sides of my closed stairs. The only problem is I had new carpet laid a few months ago. Is it possible to add a skirt board on top of carpet or would it not look good?

    Thanks,

    Terrie

    Reply
  59. Norm Yeager

    Terrie,
    Typically in today’s homes skirt boards are installed first, prior to carpet installation,as part of the stair structure The treads and risers are routed into the stringer and the stringer serves as structural support as well as the finished skirt. An alternative method, what the article describes, is to install the risers and treads and then scribe the skirts over them. In both instances you’re working with hard surfaces. It’s not as difficult to fit a soft material to a hard surface as vice versa. That’s one of the reasons carpet is installed after finish carpentry and painting etc. has been completed, as well as keeping it clean/stain free until most other operations have been completed.
    That being said I think it usually looks better to have skirt boards than to not have them. If I were in your place and wanted to have skirt boards I would try a small section of the stairs first to see how the skirt will fit over the carpet. (The best, but maybe impractical/cost prohibitive thing to do would be remove the carpet, install the skirts and then reinstall carpet or one of the newer hardwood systems of treads and risers over the existing treads)
    In order to scribe the stairs with the carpet I believe it would be best to finish nail a strip of 1/4″ plywood over the carpet and into the wood below adjacent to each tread and riser that presses the carpet down and gives a hard surface to scribe to. After scribing they could be easily removed and the finished skirt pressed into the carpet. It may be necessary to use some type of “hook” to pull as many carpet fibers out from under the skirt. That would enable the skirt to fit tighter to the structure underneath and also make the fit look better.
    That’s a long answer to a short question. Hopefully it helps, or someone else has an alternative suggestion.

    Reply
  60. Allen Doolittle

    Norm,
    I’m a hobbyist and approaching my first skirt scribe job… for my own house. So although your article is 3 years old, it’s very timely! Regarding the coping vs cutting the nosing, I’ve elected to attempt the cutting due to 2 fairly new tools (in the grand scheme of things), these are the Multi Max, and the 0 clearance Dremel Saw Max. I think these should help me wack these bad-boys in a hurry.

    Now to the question: I have a 14 foot run ( 12 steps) with an inch-higher rise at the top and a 1/2 height step at the bottom. I’m not finding material handy for the task, so I thought I’d just buy oak plywood, rip them to width 10″ or so, and butt them. 2 pieces should do it. Can you offer any special suggestions for getting these butts to line up? Thanks

    Reply
    • Norm Yeaqger

      Either coping or cutting will work. Some pictures posted previously are evidence of the cutting method. I prefer coping because the joint line of site is not staring you in the face as you climb the stairs. When you trace the profile of the nosing on the skirt it really is a simple job to cut it out. I’ve been doing this a long time and I have yet to have a coping saw “get away from me”
      I think 1×12 x16′ would work for your job but not positive. The oak plywood will work as well. You probably will want to snap a line along the top of the material instead of using registration marks as shown on the drawings. You will have to scribe both pieces separately (I think) and then using registration marks, cut and join them together. Biscuits or Pocket screws should work. If it’s your 1st time why don’t you try a test piece with cardboard or 1/4″ luan to get the feel of things. The difference in riser heights will not matter if you follow the instructions. Just set your oak scriber sticks slightly more that the highest riser and slightly longer that the longest tread.

      Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      I try to maintain between 1&1/4 & 1&1/2″. That allows enough flex in the skirt to slide it into place and also enough material above the nosing to wrap carpet (if the stairs are carpeted) around the tread. I’ve often scribed a larger skirt and after everything fits right then rip the top edge off to maintain the clearance I want over the tread nosing. Another advantage in keeping the material over the tread to a minimum is that you can finish nail through the skirt into the nosing, drawing it up tight.

      Reply
  61. Vu

    Hi Norm,

    I asked this over at Carl’s article (which referenced your article) but I don’t see any replies from him so I’d like to ask here instead.

    I just took off carpet from floors and stairs. What’s left is plywood treads and risers. I intend on putting new treads on top of the plywood.

    1. Would it be better to install the skirt first and then the treads on afterward flushed to the side skirts?

    -or-

    2. Install the treads first and leave 1/8 expansion gaps on the ends and then cover that up with the skirt? Do treads expand at the ends? I’m not sure. From all I’ve seen for stair remodels, the treads look like they’re pretty flushed to the walls (or skirts) on the ends. Wood expand/contracts so I’m not understanding why wood reads would be any different? I’ve only read of a couple references where they say wood moves very little at the ends (vs. depth wise — hence expansion gaps for hardwood floors installs).

    Would appreciate your opinion on this. Thanks Norm!

    Reply
  62. Norm Yeager

    Vu,
    If I were in your situation and this is a one time event rather than learning how to scribe skirt boards I’d probably install the skirt first and then butt the treads to it. The treads will not shrink enough in the length direction to make a difference. Wood shrinks primarily in the width direction and that can be significant. I presume you’re using kiln dried material . Set the treads (with spacers between so air circulates around the entire tread) in the area of the stairs for a week or two so they can acclimate to the conditions and shrinkage will not be a problem. One other suggestion is to look on line for a tread fitting jig. You can make one yourself once you see one. It’s basically an arm with a sliding/lockable piece of plywood on both ends that you fit against skirt on both ends, lock in place and then remove it and use it as a template. It’s pretty foolproof. The skill there comes in cutting the treads. If you’re not experienced in fine cutting the best bet may be a sliding compound miter saw where you can “sneak up” on the cut line. Hope this helps.

    Reply
    • Vu

      Norm,

      Thank you for the quick reply; you’ve saved me some time with your response. You’re spot on: it’s a one time event. (I’m attaching pics of the stairs that I’m remodeling. It’s a split level house with an entry way that splits to a top and bottom set of stairs. I just removed 25year old carpeting from it). Regardless of the method I was going to use for the skirts, yours and Carl’s articles are invaluable.

      For the treads, I intend to use 3/4in kiln dried boards. I’ll use a jig for the templates, dry fit, pre-stain them, and then use PL adhesive + nail gun for installation. The boards will be flushed to the new skirts and have a nose overhang as well. Thanks for advising me to acclimate the treads as well and using a sliding compound miter saw.

      I’m attaching some pics of what the stairs and entry way looked like before and after the removal of carpet and tile. If you see anything else that you’d recommend, I’d greatly appreciate it.

      Again, thank you for your helpful tips for this DIYer.

      Reply
  63. Norm Yeager

    Vu,
    A couple thoughts. Typically treads are 1″ thick. At least the nosing that overhangs the riser. “Retro” treads are being sold that are appx. 1/2″ thick but they come with a 1″ nosing. My concern would be that the nosings are going to look skimpy. You could glue & clamp 1/4″ pieces to the over hang portion of your 3/4″ treads, or, glue a 1′ piece onto the overhang portion. Then you would rout the radius onto top & bottom of the nosing. One word of caution is that the nosing if glued on it will be vulnerable to coming loose by repeated footsteps on it. It has to be glued carefully with high quality glue and biscuits/dowels.
    etc. The 1/4″ piece glued on the bottom of the 3/4″ would be stronger in that respect. From the upper pictures on it looks like the nosings on the upper flight will be very close to hitting the existing. Most codes require appx. 1&3/8″ nosing overhangs give or take. You may have to remove a strip of plywood at your landing on the lower flight and top floor to have a nosing overhang in both places.. Nice project, it will be a big improvement.

    Reply
  64. David Perea

    Hey Norm, I found this article very helpful. I’m finishing my own basement and need to do this for both sides of the stairway down. I plan on carpeting over the steps, so don’t think I need to be perfect, but had a few questions…

    1) What type of wood do you typically buy for this? My run is about 12′, so I was just going to buy perhaps a 1×10 at the required length. In the big box stores like Menards, they have 14′ “skirtboard”, but it’s pretty thin and flimsy and not sure it’s going to give me the “wood” finish I would like.

    2) I can’t seem to find info on the finishing. All my trim is going to be white and I want this to be painted white as well. Do I paint it first and put it on or do you paint it after the fact?

    3) You mention the base cap on the top of the finished skirt, does that dictate that I use a certain kind of wood and width? I just don’t want to finish it and then have a hard edge on the top that I can’t find an easy way to finish it off.

    Thanks so much for your article, it’s been a great adventure learning all this.

    Reply
  65. Norm Yeager

    David,
    1). I’m not familiar with the Menard’s “skirtboard”. I typically use a 1×10 or 1×12 which is 3/4″ thick and not at all flimsy. Here in SC I can get 1X12 which is straight and comes preprimed. Any 1x material should be fine as long as it’s straight. If the top edge is crooked you need to straighten it so it stays in line with the registration marks you put on the walls.
    2). If your material isn’t primed, I’d prime it before scribing. It will help your scribed lines to show up better and be easier to follow when you cut. If your going to put on two finish coats I’d prime and put the first finish coat on then scribe. Finish coat goes on after skirt is fastened in place.
    3). In older homes the base often consisted of three pieces. A shoe moulding at the floor, then a 1x base followed by a cap moulding that went on top. Each of these pieces served a purpose. The shoe moulding fit tight to the floor which was typically hardwood and then tight to the base piece that was nailed to the wall. The shoe was nailed to the floor and not the base. It’s job was to follow any irregularities of the floor and account for any shrinkage of the floor assembly. The base went on the wall and could be any height the builder/owner wanted. The base cap went on top of the base and was nailed to the wall. It took care of any irregularities of the wall that a 1x couldn’t follow. In today’s world you seldom see a three piece base. With carpet in the floor there’s no reason to install at the floor. Whatever the profile is on the top of your base I would run it up the skirtboard as well. At many lumber yards you can get a cap that matches the top of the base. I like to have that cap join the base at the top and the bottom. It makes the job look like it was well thought out. I’ve seen many skirtboards terminate at a “plinth” block at the top and bottom, but, in my opinion, it doesn’t look nearly as good as the cap continuing at the top and bottom of the skirtboard. If you can’t find a separate cap you always have the option of buying enough baseboard and then ripping the top profile off for your skirtboard cap.
    If you follow the step by step method you’ll do fine and have a finished product that you’ll be proud of.

    Reply
  66. Michelle

    I’m going to attempt this but I have a question, I know the length of the board varies but how wide should the board I’m going to scrub be?

    Reply
  67. Norm Yeager

    Michelle,
    The width of the skirt depends upon the height of your risers and the width of the tread. If you lay a straight edge over a couple nosings and mark the wall on the plane of the nosings you can measure back into the intersection of a tread and riser. If you add 2″ to the measurement you come up with that will be the minimum width of the board you need. It’s important that the top edge of your board is straight. It has to align with the registration marks you put on the wall. Hope this helps. I’ll try to answer any additional questions you have.

    Reply
  68. tony cerrito, the house carpenter

    I actually measure my rise and run .Then i layout the entire .Just like if you were cutting a rough string. i cut out the triangles with a circular saw real fast no nosing at this time .What this does for me is removes the bulk. Gets me close and sometimes real close then all i have to do is use a standard scriber . set it so i am taking at least a half inch .scribe nosing, the risers and the tread. And cut the final with a hand saw Back cutting. Works

    Reply
  69. Norm Yeager

    Tony,
    There’s usually more than one effective way to do most tasks. For me I see little benefit in measuring when you don’t have to and cutting twice when it’s not necessary. If you try the scribing method I believe you’d find it to be fast and efficient. But hey, whatever works for you.

    Reply
  70. tony cerrito, the house carpenter

    Norm, thanks for the response. Precutting as i mentioned is really only an advantage on short runs. 5 to 6 steps or less, especially when say there is just a starter step and then a landing. No tacking at all, it sits there. On long runs i do your method above. Precutting a long board you lose the straight of the board. I always use a 12” board. After scribing I measure parallel to nosing and snap it to straight line. I try to get as close to quartered sawn or rift . And always acclimate. I like the idea of pre priming. Do you think its a good idea to put adhesive at the triangles?

    Reply
  71. tony cerrito, the house carpenter

    Norm, i got to tell you when i said above about measuring .i only measure one tread and rise and use that to layout the rest with a pitch block or square. measuring each one would be crazy waste.and negate it. the steps are always the same usually and its just a rough cut to use the scriber .by the way love that scriber from (fast cap). enough said about that. I have done this in the past on not so high end jobs attic stairs. Walls both sides with drywall . Rough strings in place risers put on all first.Then Finish skirt is notched or scribed to risers only both sides you can shim riser to skirt from behind if needed .Treads butted to finish string both sides using a stair jig to get length and shape of tread. advantage…faster, no cutting around nosing of tread.also if you but risers and treads to skirt between walls a little over fit tread opens a gap on the riser below and vise a versa but if skirt is butted to riser it works like a cope joint. but your right just scribe it over both thats a first class job.

    Reply
  72. Norm Yeager

    Tony,
    A couple thoughts. Like you I use a 1×12. making sure the top edge is straight. That edge being straight is important so when you move the skirt to scribe the risers it lines up with the registration marks you’ve put on the wall at the beginning of the install. After all the scribing & cutting is complete I rip the top edge down so that between an inch and an inch and a half remains above the nosing. This enables you to “flex” the skirt a little to install it and also to nail directly through the skirt into the nosing, pulling it tight. One of the primary advantages to scribing over top of the treads/risers is that you are not staring into the joints when you climb the stairs. Whenever I run molding in a room I start away from the entrance so the joints are not as visible. It’s the same principle. Hope this helps

    Reply
  73. Dan

    What is the purpose of scribing? Can’t you use a pencil? Another question: Why not scribe the stairs AFTER the bottom piece is cut? Stair sizes are not always the same.

    Reply
  74. Norm Yeager

    Dan,
    From the tone of your questions my supposition is that you are not familiar with scribing. If I’m incorrect no offense intended. You said “can’t you use a pencil “ ? When you scribe you can use a pencil, marker, steel awl, sharpened nail, etc. What you use to mark the line is not as critical as the method. In the article I recommended using a sharpened nail because the cut line on a skirt has to be sharp and it’s easy to fasten the nail through the oak scribe stick. It wouldn’t be as easy to fasten a pencil .
    You said “ stair risers are not always the same”. Exactly, that’s the beauty of scribing the skirtboard. The scribing process resolves all the inconsistencies regardless of the different riser & tread sizes. You don’t have to scribe after the “bottom piece” is in place. Hope this is a help. Norm

    Reply
  75. Darrin

    I tried this on some rough stairs and it did not turn out good at all. It was the suggestion to start with the tallest or biggest stair that messed me up. Took all day to fix….oh dang the back pain of going up and down 20 steps all day long…

    Reply
  76. David

    Norm,

    I have one run that is 11 3/8 and the rest are around 10 1/4. Do I create my scribe to match the 11 3/8th’s or the 10 1/4? That 11 3/8th’s scares me.

    Thanks for any assistance you can give me.

    David

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      David,
      If you were scribing a vertical piece of 1x to a stone wall you would set your scriber distance from the point of stone that protrudes furtherest from the stone itself. If you didn’t and set it for anything less when you cut the scribe line the board would not “reach” into the deepest depressions of the stone wall but be stopped by that fartherest point. Scribing a skirt board is scribing, like any other scribing. You must set the depth of your scriber for the furtherst distance that has to be removed so that the entire board will fit. Think of scribing a countertop to a crooked wall. When you set your countertop on the base cabinets you line up the front edge parallel with the face of the base cabinet top rails, push the top against the wall and set your scriber distance to the furtherest distance that the top will have to reach in order that the entire length of the top will fit after you’ve cut it. A short answer to your original question is , yes, set the scriber to the 11&3/8. Try just a few treads that include the 11 & 3/8 with a piece of cardboard or thin plywood. It will give the confidence that this really will work. Don’t forget to put the registration lines on the wall. They’re the equivalent to lining the front edge of the countertop parallel with the top rails of the base cabinet. I hope this has been a help.

      Reply
  77. Rich Johannes

    I’ve been wanting to build stair skirts for years in my house but it looked like too much work. Saw your article online and got excited because it looked easy. So I followed your directions and after scribing the treads and having marked the angle of the board for realignment and then cutting off the bottom tread mark (which is actually the floor) and aligning the board back on the wall the two top tread scribe marks didn’t line up. They were about 2″ higher than the floor at the top and the top tread. I can’t figure out what I did wrong.

    Rich

    Reply
  78. Norm Yeager

    Rich,
    Can’t say exactly what happened but here are some possibilities. First, the marks on the wall are put on the wall before any scribing is started. Second, it’s important that you set the height and width of the scribe (oak stick with sharpened finish nail) to the longest tread and the highest riser. After you scribe for all the treads you cut off the bottom scribe mark, slide the skirt down to the floor and realign and fasten on the wall marks put on before you started the whole process. Scribe for the risers & the fartherest point of each nosing. Take off the skirt & do the cutting. If you followed that sequence it should fit. Try it with a piece of 1/4 ” plywd ripped to 11&1/4″ or a piece of cardboard from a large box. It’s a lot cheaper to practice on inexpensive materials than the real thing when you’re just starting out.

    Reply
  79. Aaron Richins

    Norm,
    I love the detail you have provided here. I am just now starting to do some research on the best method to build a skirt for my refinished stair case. We converted from carpet to oak treads and risers. My question that I have, is whether this method is the same or slightly altered if the stair case has a curve to it? Our Stair case is a L shape that curves on the last five steps. I planned to use a Flex flat board for the curved sections.

    Aaron

    Reply
  80. Norm Yeager

    Aaron,
    The picture helps a lot. Honestly I am not sure exactly how that curve will affect the skirt board but I know that it will. I’ve never installed a scribed skirt board on a curved section of stairs. That being said I would scribe the lower flight skirt in two sections, the upper straight section and the lower curved section. I would make a template for the lower section out of 1/8″plywood, do the scribing and cutting and do a test fit. That will show you how the scribing process will go. If after you cut the plywd you have do do some tweaking you’ll be working on a piece of stock that is sacrificial and not your final skirt board. If you can get a good fit the first time I would tack my finished skirt board on the wall and follow the same procedure. For sure on the right side you’ll have to undercut the skirt more so the back side of the skirt doesn’t contact the front edge of the treads and riser before the finished edge of the skirt does. Once you get the plywood template fitting acceptably you can either use it as a pattern to trace on the finished skirt board, or, learn from that experience and scribe your final piece. I’d love to hear how this goes. Hope this is a help.

    Reply
    • Aaron Richins

      Norm,
      Thanks for the reply and tips. I ended up using the method you described above and scribed onto poster board. Once I scribed onto poster board I then cut with scissors and fine trimmed against the stairs. Once that was complete I transferred the template to my mdf board by tapping and spray painting the outline of the template onto the board. I then cut and trimmed with a jig saw and oscillating tool. I most likely made this way more difficult then it needed to be, but I used the tools that I had and did my best. I have attached an image of the curved portion with skirting. Note I ended up cutting kerfs into the board to allow it to bend, I did this instead of buying Flex Wood which was priced at $24 a foot (ouch).

      Reply
  81. Norm Yeager

    Aaron,
    Thanks for posting picture. It looks outstanding. I don’t know what you have planned for the top of the skirt board. What would look good in my opinion would be a piece of base cap moulding like on the top of your baseboard that can be seen behind the stairs on left. It could run the whole length of the skirt and miter down to the floor to cover the intersection of the two skirts and the newel posts.

    Reply
  82. Aaron Richins

    Norm,
    Up to this point, I was planning to stack my existing baseboard molding right on top. I had not considered running just a baseboard cap though. I will need to give that some more thought. At the top of the stairs I have cut the skirting to allow the baseboards to continue down the stair skirt. Once molding reached the newel post I planned to install rounded corner pieces that would tie the molding directly into the newel posts. Please let me know your thoughts on that plan, I would love to hear your pros and cons on it. The one concern I have had with simply stacking the baseboards on top of the skirting was the overall height of the combined moldings, would it be to much?

    I could insert a piece at the top of the stairs that would assist my transition from base molding to skirt and base top molding. How hard would it be to find a base top molding that matches my current base molding?

    Existing Baseboard molding link:
    http://www.elandelwoodproducts.com/product_detail.pl/3/1/36/1891

    Reply
  83. Norm Yeager

    Aaron,
    FWIW I think it will look much better to install a base cap on top of the skirt board and not the whole piece of baseboard. The last picture in the article shows it like that. A whole piece of baseboard is going to look much too big IMHO. The base cap should transition from the existing baseboard at the top of the stairs to the base cap on top of the skirtboard. You will have to add a piece to the top of the skirt board to do that. Two options to getting the base cap. One, order a base cap from the moulding supplier, or, if they don’t have base cap to match, order enough baseboard and cut the cap portion off on a tablesaw. It’s a little fancier baseboard than I’m used to seeing in SC with a nicer profile than most of the base in new homes here. At the bottom of the skirt board the base cap can miter down to the floor and around the newel posts. There’s no right or wrong here, just different methods. From what I see in your pictures you’re going to do a good job in whatever you do.

    Reply
    • Aaron Richins

      Norm,
      I am just now finishing up this project. DIY projects tend to take a little at my place. I wanted to post one last photo of the finished project. Really appreciate your input throughout the project. I am glad you opened my mind to using a base cap. I ended up using my table saw to cut my own of the current molding I already had. This project took longer than I expected, but I am happy how it turned out. Thanks again, you are a rock star, appreciate you taking the time to provide input to my project.

      Aaron

      Reply
  84. Ana

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Brilliant article. Geometry at its best.
    We were very unhappy after Toll Brothers installed hardwood on the stairs without any baseboard next to it. The stairs look blah..after spending $$$. Now we can find a carpenter who is up to this task and make our stairway look the way we imagined.

    Reply
  85. Norm Yeager

    Ana,
    Glad the article has been an encouragement for you. I would encourage you to find a carpenter who has experience in stairbuilding. A skilled carpenter will be able to do a good job but like most things in life experience counts. Typically it’s best to scribe a few skirtboards on flights of stairs that get carpeting so you can get some practice, with a little grace on the fit, which will be covered by carpet. On a side note. I’m originally from the same area where Toll Bros. started in Pa.. I worked for a builder and they were our biggest competition. From my reccollection the current Toll Bros, Bruce and Robert are an attorney and an accountant respectively. They learned the business from their father who was a tradesman. I’m not saying this is the case but often when a company leaves it’s historical roots and is run by the “number crunchers” the building details aren’t as important as the efficiency/bottom line. I hope you have a good experience.

    Reply
  86. Ana

    Norm,

    Thank you for your reply. The current Toll Brothers background certainly seems to fit to what is happening here. The homes are not being built to the quality we expected.
    We are very excited to find your blog and plan on trying your instructions with a Flex board ourselves. But for the actual job we are going to look for a skilled carpenter with experience as you suggested. For now, we are simply relieved that the stairs can be finished the way we had planned.
    If you offer small training courses online, I bet many would sign up!

    Ana

    Reply
  87. Norm Yeager

    Ana,
    If you have the desire and reasonable skill I believe you can do this. The key is to do exactly as you’re planning. You can try it with cardboard strips from a refrigerator box first. Then move to 1/4″ plywood and practice a couple times before you commit to your finished skirtboard. It would be a great sense of pride if you did it yourself. I’m not computer literate enough to do an online course but I’ll always try to answer any questions you may have. Best wishes.

    Reply
  88. Norm Yeager

    Aaron,
    That job looks outstanding ! Couldn’t have done any better myself. The base cap adds the finishing touch. Congratulations on a job well done. I can’t wait for my kids and grandkids to read that someone thinks I’m a Rockstar !

    Reply
  89. Scott U

    Norm –

    I posted this question on an article by Norm Hagstrom, where he explains your method as well and thought I would ask you directly:

    Great article. Thanks for sharing. One question I have is rather than using a stick to scribe, why not use a block (say 3″-5″ wide) and 2 or 3 brads so that you can scribe without worrying about how plumb the stick is? Some of the brads would run out and off the skirt, but the others would come in behind and finish up the markings. On stained material this may not be advisable since the scribe marks would extend beyond the cut lines, but for painted material it should be ok. And on stain material, what about using lead from mechanical pencils rather than brads?

    Reply
  90. Norm Yeager

    Scott,
    The idea behind the stick is that you are following the possible irregularities of the treads & risers where they occur, not bridging the gap so to speak. It’s kind of the same principle when you use a pointed scriber to follow the irregularities of whatever you are trying to fit a board ,countertop, etc. whether it’s a wall or another piece of material like brick, stone or whatever.
    I think the mechanical pencil lead may work and be a little more forgiving if you get off a little. However it is often difficult to see a pencil line on stained material particularly if it has a gloss of any type on it.
    I think whatever works for you is what you should do. When I was running jobs I always told the tradesmen I was working with there’s three ways to do things. There’s right, there’s wrong and there’s different. I’ll let you do it right and I’ll be happy, I’ll let you do it different and I’ll learn from you and maybe do it your way in the future. Doing it wrong was not an acceptable. option.

    Reply
  91. Garrett

    Great info!

    What type of wood should I be using?
    I will be painting mine…would pine or poplar be OK?

    Thanks,
    Garrett

    Reply
  92. Norm Yeager

    Garrett,
    I think either poplar or pine is a good choice. I’ve used more pine than poplar but given the choice and availability of straight flat boards of either species I’d use the poplar. I believe you’ll find it more durable over the long haul. No right or wrong here in my opinion
    Norm Yeager

    Reply
  93. Emidio Falini

    A carpenter friend send me this link with a note how well this worked when he cut a skirt board this weekend. Before reading the article I skimmed through the illustrations and messaged him back this was exactly how I do them. Then I read the article and realized the reason, I learned it from the same teacher you did and from one of the best Senior carpenters at Williamson. It is great that you put this information out for this knowledge to be passed on.
    Thanks
    Emidio, 7W1

    Reply
  94. Norman Yeager

    Emidio,
    When I saw your name I remembered you well. Come to think of it I believe you’re the only Emidio I’ve ever known. I hope you have done well over the years. We were indeed fortunate to learn from Don Zepp. I still think of him quite often and think of how my life has been impacted through him and Williamson. After all these years I still love what I do. I hope that’s the same for you. Thanks for saying hello and your kind comments.
    Norm Yeager

    Reply
  95. Rob

    What would be the best way to determine the width or height of the skirt board? Tread length is 9 1/4″ and rise 8 3/4″ both vary slightly but these are the max measurements for both.
    I bought a primed 1×8 already and hoping that the finished stair tread, which is 1/2″, will allow me to use the 1×8. If not, what are your suggestions?
    I am using 8″ baseboard at the top and the bottom if this matters.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Rob,
      Lay a straight edge on the o/s edge of the stair nosings & draw a light line on the wall on the bottom of the straight edge. From that line draw anther line at a right angle that extends to the intersection of the riser and the tread. Add 2″ to the measurement of the second line and that will be what size the skirt board will need to be. That will give you enough skirt to have a minimum of 1-2′ over the nosings and should be enough to account for any irregularities in the rise & run of the existing stairs. I don’t think a 1×8 will be quite enough but what I’ve described will tell you for sure. (or you could just lay a 4′ level on the nosings, mark your line on the top of it and measure from that line)

      Reply
  96. Geergirl

    I think I did something wrong, and perhaps you can help?
    I followed the instructions, but when it came time to wedge the skirt in, the bottom few stairs were a tight fit, but the gap in the rise and run increased as I got to the top, where it was easily 1/8″, if not more?!
    Any idea what I might’ve done wrong?

    Reply
  97. Norm Yeager

    Did you mark registration lines on the wall when you put your uncut skirt on at first? Then after cutting off the bottom and sliding the skirt down the wall you have to make sure you’re on the original marks, not having the bottom of the uncut skirt laying on the nosings. That would be my 1st thought.

    Reply
  98. Geergirl

    I think I figured it out – I wasn’t properly resting on the top and bottom stairs when I started (and made the registration line), but I was when I cut everything out and tried to make it fit.
    (The top and bottom stairs are a slightly different height than the rest. The stairs in question are two straight switchbacks joined by a halfcircle landing in a ‘tower’…and I know that the stair guy twisted the stairs installing them so they aren’t perfect)
    Not resting on the correct stairs seems to have introduced a slightly different angle that created the increasing gap issue.
    …or at least that’s my current theory.
    The next 2 sets came out pretty decent. Not quite a $20 fit, but my backcuts using a jigsaw need more practice, and these are paint grade stairs. I’ll keep practicing ;)
    Thanks for the quick reply!

    Reply
  99. Norman Yeager

    That’s great ! It really does work, but it’s kind of hard to believe it when you’re going through it step by step, until the end. It’s great to learn on paint grade stairs, they’re more forgiving than stain grade. Thanks for sharing your experience. After all these years it’s still satisfying to help someone succeed.

    Reply
  100. Kevin

    Norm – How do you deal with varying height risers?

    I completely grasp the idea that you are scribing to the tread below (on the initial scribe pass).
    My stairs were originally carpeted – which means the bottom step is approximately 1″ lower than the rest of my steps. After measuring the heights on the rest of my risers, I vary by 1/8″ (+/-).

    Seems like I would have to reposition the scribe point for each level. Please tell me I am wrong and explain how this is compensated for.

    Reply
    • Norman Yeager

      Kevin,
      You do not have to reposition the scribe point for each level. Think about scribing a board to a stone wall where you want the outside of the board to be plumb and the inside of the board to follow all the irregularities of the stone wall. Once your board is tacked in place on the plumb line and resting against the stone with the fartherest projection, you set the width of the scriber to the depth of the deepest indentation of the stone wall. Once the scriber is set you never change the setting. It’s the same with scribing skirt boards. You lay your board on the tread nosings and tack it in place. You then set your scribe stick to the HIGHEST riser and scribe away. If you will reread the article and follow step by step you’ll do great. I used to teach carpentry and whereas material was expensive to practice on I had my students practice cutting rafters, laying out stair stringers and scribing skirt boards all on cheap luan plywood or even cardboard. The principles are the same. Give it a try. I’ll try to answer any future questions.

      Reply
  101. Kevin

    Thank you Norm.
    I guess I missed the part where you said to set your scribe for the highest riser. My apologies. In my defense, I am an engineer, by trade, and an amateur wood worker by requirement (honey-do).

    This makes perfect sense now and I will be putting this to practice very soon.

    Reply
  102. Michael Greco

    Nice article. I have been doing stairs for over 30 years and when I install my skirt board I install my risers first with a 3/8″ slot or dado. I then router my skirt board with a 3/8′ tongue on it and lock the skirt board into place. This makes for a very tight fitting skirt board with no shrinkage. Cheers

    Reply
  103. Paul Z

    Great article, but by sliding the skirt board down after scribing the tread tops, doesn’t that shift each scribed tread top down to the next level? That first tread you’ve scribed is now on the floor. So the distance from the first tread to the second tread ends up being the distance from the FLOOR to the first tread (and they could be different and won’t match). And by doing so, the tread heights don’t match their original scribed positions? Especially if there is variance in the tread heights? How could it possibly match the stair when you go to slide it into place?

    Reply
  104. Norm

    Paul,
    I realize that the process seems somewhat counterintuitive. I can say that I’ve done it many times exactly as I wrote it with the same results as I recounted in the article. I’ve had friends give me all the reasons why it won’t work. My standard reply is ” just follow the instructions step by step and see what results you get”. Every time the results have been the same. The easiest mistake to make is not setting the scriber for the rise and run to the highest riser and the widest tread. If you do that and are a reasonably experienced carpenter you’ll experience the same thing. Let me know how you make out.

    Reply
  105. Chris Swanson

    I dont understand how this is accurate if your rise and run varies. If a riser is a quarter inch high and you set your scribe to it wouldnt the rest be off. How come you dont have to adjust your scribe for every step?

    Reply
  106. Norm Yeager

    Chris,
    Scribing a skirt board uses same principles as scribing anything. Suppose you’re going to scribe the stile of a bookcase to a stone wall. You set your scriber to the maximum depth that the stile will have to go into the stone. You don’t change your scriber for every different indentation. The scriber stays the same all the way along the stone wall. It’s the same with stairs. You set the scriber at the highest riser and the widest tread. If you do anything else this method won’t work. Just like in the stone wall illustration. I’ve done this at least 50 times. It works. The man (Don Zepp) who taught me did it thousands of times. I hope you have the opportunity to try it. Follow the instructions exactly and you’ll have success.

    Reply
    • Chris swanson

      Thank you so much! I get it now. I did exactly what you said with great results. You never quit learning in this business.

      Reply
  107. Wm. Todd Murdock

    For readers having a difficult time visualizing the scribe I’ve attached an image below. I may clear up some of the confusion.

    Even though this is a two-step scribe process, it still follows basic scribing principles. You have to remove enough material so that the scribed piece fits into the deepest recess of the profile you’re trying to match. That means you must use the largest rise and the largest run at a MINIMUM when scribing the stair. Any variation in tread height and depth will be transferred directly to the skirt board automatically.

    Regards,
    Todd
    _

    Wm. Todd Murdock
    Art Director, THISisCarpentry.com

    Reply
    • Vincent

      Ah! Now I understand!! Thank you for adding this image it really clears it up perfectly for me!

      Reply
      • Gary Katz

        Yeah…nothing like a good illustration! But I think Todd should have created an animated illustration. :)

        Reply
  108. Daniel Walker

    This is a GREAT article and clearly has helped MANY people. I’ve installed carbonized bamboo retro treads already and am ready to start scribing the skirts. My concern is the tread nosing is not a simple rounded edge, but also has an integrated molding underneath. I’m concerned that it will be to difficult to cut for the nosing out of the skirt. The idea of cutting off the end of the nosing would solve that, but the hard and brittle bamboo will not doubt splinter visibly, thereby negating the best advantage of the “skirts on last” method of hiding the end cuts. Any suggestions?

    Reply
  109. Norm Yeager

    Daniel,
    If you have a cutoff of of the retro tread with moulding trace it on the skirtboard just like the article shows you do with the piece of tread nosing. It will be a little more challenging than cutting a standard tread profile but not anymore difficult than cutting crown or bed moulding. You may have to use a coping saw for tight radiuses. I’m sure you can do it.

    Reply
    • CP

      Hi Norm,
      An amazing article and the fact that people like me are still commenting and asking questions 9 years later is a testament to a timeless piece. Thanks again.

      My question. It is my first time doing skirting. I have removed carpet and padding and will be installing new risers along with stair treads with a nosing. I’m debating whether I should install the treads and risers first and then the skirts, or do the skirts and then the risers and treads. I’m ok with a jigsaw and am afraid of the round cuts for the nosing referred to in your article. 1) which option would you recommend? 2) I have to place a bullnose on the top most stair as I have laminate starting out immediately after the stairs. Do I just end my skirt at the top of my last riser and not go to the landing with the skirt?

      Thanks in advance for your response.
      CP

      Reply
  110. George

    How and what type of tool do I need to use to cut the nice round bullnose on the skirt board?

    Reply
  111. Norm Yeager

    Several options. I typically cut to the outside edge of the nosing with whatever saw I’m using to cut out the tread profile. That could be a jig saw or handsaw. From that point you can cut the radius with a coping saw, fret saw, or, nibble away at it with a jigsaw. It’s not as difficult as it may seem.

    Reply
  112. Wayne

    I read this article when it was first published, and thought it was just a wonderful idea, and a–no pun intended–custom fit for a project at my home in the stairwell from a hallway down to the garage. Took me about five years to work up the nerve to give it a go, including a couple of false starts and, of course, talking my brother into helping me wield the 14-foot piece of poplar. :] Long story short, it came out beautifully, and the scribing techniques worked exactly as you described. Thank you! As a side note, I used a Forstner bit of a diameter just under the radius of my nosings to remove the bulk of the material, then cleaned them up with a coping saw and rasp. Thanks again!

    Reply
  113. Kerry

    Hi Norm,

    Thanks for the article! I am seeing something similar to someone that posted a few years ago….any ideas on this? Posting pictures…moved into an older house and our house inspector didnt say anything about this…but I wonder if it is a structural problem or just part of owning an older home?

    Reply
  114. Norm Yeager

    Kerry,
    Just from looking at the picture it’s difficult to say what the problem is. I would look on the under side of the stairs to see if there’s any evidence of movement there. Are there any wall cracks or evidence that something has moved in the past and has been patched ? It’s also quite possible that whoever did the work originally should have read a” scribing skirt board” article. My guess would be that the stringers were not beefy enough to begin with and have sagged over the years. You could determine that by putting a straight edge over the top edge of the tread nosings from top of stairs to bottom, or pull a string line.

    Reply
  115. Sharon Jordan

    I love your directions and illustrations are awesome. I am going to try to tackle this project very soon as I hate how my stairs look now. Since I didn’t think to do this beforehand, can I install this on top of the carpeting we recently had installed? I understand it probably would have been best to do it before it was carpeted but alas, I didn’t think of it.

    Secondly, can I use this same process on the underside of steps? My stair treads protrude past the railing and when we replaced the carpeting, it was easy to see the finish dry wall was not done all the way to the treads and it looks terrible.

    Thank you,
    A budding, at home, handy woman.

    Reply
  116. Norm Yeager

    Sharon,

    I’ve never seen skirt boards scribed over carpet. Not saying it can’t be done but I don’t believe the finished product will satisfy you. If the need arises to replace the carpet you will be relegated to replacing with carpet that’s as thick, or thicker than what you have now. As painful as it may be I’d remove the carpet and then do the scribing. If yours are rough lumber stairs meant to be covered I’d consider installing “retro” treads and risers first and then scribing over the new stairs. I’ve just changed your project from a challenging job to an expensive and challenging job, but the new look would be fabulous. If you could post a picture regarding your second question I can respond better. The short answer is probably not, but there are simple and time tested methods to achieve a finished look. If you decide to tackle the project I’ll walk you through it.

    Norm Yeager

    Reply
    • Sharon

      Thanks for your reply. We just replaced the carpet so I would not want to remove it and redo it. It was expensive enough the first time around. I am working to update and repaint much of the house to freshen it up to go with the new carpet and furnishings we recently installed.

      I did attach a photo of my steps that I had hoped to add a trim board to below them (my second question). However, again I would not want to remove the carpeting as it was installed a short time ago. (the picture is a bit on an angle – sorry about that)

      Thank you for your response. I am a bit sad about it to be honest but would hate to spend the money to try to do the trim board on top of the steps for it not to look good.

      Reply
    • Sharon Jordan

      Hi Norm,
      Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your honesty and I guess I will have to forgo this project as the expensive part – removing and replacing the new carpeting, and then installing the treads as described is not an option.

      I did attach a picture to aid in answering my second question but since those are also carpeted, my guess would be that adding the trim board would not be the best idea given I can’t remove the carpet that wraps around the treads.

      Thank you again,
      Sharon

      Reply
      • Norm Yeager

        Sharon,
        Now that I see the picture and your response that you may cancel the project due to cost I’m going to amend my answer. Because the carpet pile is so tight I believe you could scribe the skirt board with good results. What I would do is get a thin strip of metal and tape it to the tread and riser and the nosing face that you are scribing so the scribe stick doesn’t sink into or drag on the carpet. Once you cut out the skirt the carpet will actually make the fit more forgiving. Because the carpet is so tight, if you ever decide to remove it and install overlay treads and risers you could butt them into the skirt board and they would probably fit just fine. A skirt board will add a lot to your stairs. I’d add a cap moulding on top of the skirt for a complete finished look. Hope this helps.
        Norm

        Reply
        • Sharon Jordan

          Thanks Norm,
          I had high hopes that the tighter carpet would still allow this to work. Thank you for the tip about the metal strip… I will do that.

          Now, I just have to figure out how to do the same thing on the underside of the steps so that the two sides compliment each other. I am going to give it a go as soon as I figure out how wide of a board I need. The moulding on top will give it a nice finished look as well. I am going to look into that too.

          I cannot help but smile a bit at the thought of how it will look. Thanks again!
          Sharon

          Reply
          • norm yeager

            Sharon,
            Here’s how to determine how wide the board has to be. Lay a straight edge (board, yardstick, etc. ) on top of two of the stair nosings. From the bottom edge of the straight edge measure at a right angle to the intersection of where the tread meets the riser. Whatever that number is, add 2″ to it and that will give you a sufficiently wide board to use as a skirt board.
            Norm

    • Sharon Jordan

      Hi Norm,
      I just wanted to update you and thank you again for your help. I did the skirt boards. I did the top as well as the underside. It isn’t perfect by any means but I am happy with how it turned out.

      Reply
      • Sharon

        Here is on other picture as well. I did paint the railing and spindles which also adds to the beauty of my foyer.

        Reply
        • Norm Yeager

          Sharon,
          Your project looks great !. Congratulations on achieving a good result with your carpeted stairs. I was skeptical but you’ve made a believer out of me.
          Norm

          Reply
  117. Garrett Goodman

    HI Mr. Norm,
    As a newer wood worker and DIY type guy, when I renovated my house I removed the old carpet stair case and installed a solid hickory stair case to match the hickory floors I put in the house. I have long hated the joint between the stair treads and wall and since i did not install my skirt board at install I have wondered how to go about installing one after the fact. Thank you sir for the tutorial I shall post pictures after I finish the current project… a cherry slab farm table and matching chairs/ bench. at some point i hope to build a bedroom suite.

    Reply
  118. Dominick

    You never indicate how to properly calculate the run and transfer it to the oak stick in your article – can you advise please as I’m set to start this on a set of stairs in my house.

    Thank you
    Dominick

    Reply
  119. Norm Yeager

    Dominick,
    I may be misunderstanding your question. There’s no calculations involved, or required. Set the nail in the oak strip to the width of the widest riser if there’s a variation. Same thing with the riser. If there’s a variation set the nail to the highest riser. If that doesn’t clear it up for you, ask again and I’ll give it another try.
    Norm

    Reply
  120. Joseph Dziedzic

    I just scribed my first set of skirt boards using this method and the end result came out really nice. One slightly confusing thing: when referring to the horizontal (tread) scribe in the article it’s not really clear if you mean the depth of the tread as opposed to the actual run of the stringer; the pictorial for the second scribe operation referring to “unit run” doesn’t clearly illustrate this measurement. I found I had to use the depth of the tread in order to get the scribed lines for the riser and tread to intersect properly at the base of the triangular cut-out.

    It was a really “fun” project that turned out much better than I had anticipated – thanks for a great article!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Joseph,
      You figured it out. It is the depth of the tread material and not the unit run. If you have varying height risers or varying width treads and don’t use the highest riser and widest tread there will be a small triangular missing piece of skirt board at the intersection between the riser and the tread. I hope this helps.
      Norm

      Reply
  121. Anthony Wasiukiewicz

    Thanks for the info. I’ve got a two tread step to do next week on a painting job, and was going to just 45° the skirt along the risers and tread, as previously it didn’t have anything. But going to give this method a go, as from a google search, this will look much better and is more conventional. it’s only MDF skirt, and I’ve got some spare stuff, so worst case it takes a couple of goes, and there is a little bit of gap filler at the bottom with a coat of paint… 8 years later you’re still helping people. Good stuff.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thanks Andrew, I hope your project went well. Love to see a picture.
      Norm

      Reply
  122. John

    Simply put, Norm, you rock! I’m gonna try this in a few weeks myself and saved this to use. Thanks so much!

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Thanks John, I’ve got to show your comment to my kids and grandkids. They don’t believe me when I tell them. I hope your project works well for you. Please post a picture when you complete it.
      Norm

      Reply
  123. Lance U

    Hi,

    I’m a DIY’er at home, installing new flooring on my stairs, and this article is so helpful. I have the first of 4 skirt boards nearly done. The first set of steps terminates in a landing which immediately make a 90 degree left turn. After making the scribing cuts and ripping the board so it’s about 1 inch above the treads, I now have this 8 foot long unwieldy piece of wood. I need to miter the very top for the outside turn. But as a DIYer I’m not really sure how to hold that board in order to make the cut. Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Lance

    Reply
  124. Norm Yeager

    Lance,
    I’m sorry to be getting back to you so late. My guess is your probably finished. If not, a good way to miter the long unwieldy skirt board would be with a sliding compound miter saw with an extension table long enough to support it. You can set the saw to a beveled 45 degree angle to turn the 90 degree corner.
    If you don’t have a SCMS you could do it by marking the bevel with a 45 degree combination square and making the cut with a 10 or 12 point hand saw or a Japanese pull saw. If you’ve come this far you’ve certainly got the skill to do that. I’m sue there’s other options as well. Great job. I’d love to see a picture of your project.
    Norm

    Reply
    • Nathan Stafford

      A circular saw with a shooting board would do the trick as well. Thank you for continuing to share your knowledge Norm.

      Reply
      • Norm Yeager

        Nathan,
        Thank you for the shooting board suggestion. It sounds good but I’m not 100% sure what you mean. Is the “shooting board” a homemade track saw without the locking feature of the saw to the track like the Festool, Makitas, DeWalts, etc. ? If so I get it.

        Reply
  125. Gene in Oregon

    Thanks for the great tips on stair skirts. I’m a 70 year old DIY carpenter and this really made it easier. Turns out that height and depth of some steps varied, requiring several trips back to the saw. Tip: always cut a smaller piece if it appears customs cutting coming. That way you don’t waste a board trying to make the first perfect cut and with one oops, a $70 1x12x16 is trash.

    Anything tip: I used blue masking tape to mark the lines of the angles,, easy to see and easy off without messing up my paint.

    Thanks, and the supplement that you did was even better.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Gene,
      From information on the email notification I assume you’re a Navy veteran. Thank you for your service.
      Somewhere along the line I should have communicated better in the article. When scribing a skirt board with the method in the article it doesn’t matter if the heights and depths (rise and run) vary. Scribing is scribing. This method will resolve those differences without several trips back to the saw without custom cutting. The entire skirt is custom cut the first time to whatever condition you have. That’s not meant to say there may not be minor tweaking but if the instructions are followed step by step the first cut should fit like the skin on a baloney.
      The blue tape is a good idea. I agree that the supplement was even better. I wish I could take credit for it. The second article was written by Carl Hagstrom who, like me graduated from Williamson Trade School. Carl has written numerous articles over many years for JLC, Fine Homebuilding and other trade magazines. Check him out, it will be worth the effort.

      Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Lia,
      Sorry for the delayed response. Typically 3/4” material such as 1×10 or 1×12. The material easiest/least costly material to come by is pine but I’ve cut skirt boards out of oak and poplar as well. To determine how wide your board has to be lay a straight edge across the tops of several nosings and measure from the bottom of that straight edge at a 90 degree angle back into the corner intersection where the riser and tread meet. That measurement plus 2” will be wide enough to scribe the skirt with between 1&2” above the outside edge of the nosing. I like to have at least 1 to 1&1/2 “ beyond the nosing for carpet to butt against.

      Reply
  126. Maureen Williams

    Hello Norm,

    I am wondering how to go about cutting the stairs skirt when there is an entryway wall protruding out on the bottom of the stairs. I won’t be able to put the board flush with the wall. Does this matter?

    Thanks so much for your article!
    Maureen

    Reply
  127. Norm Yeager

    Hello Maureen,
    Sorry for the delayed response. The closer the skirt is to the wall/tread/riser intersection the better because that’s where the joint has to fit it’s best. That being said your stairs look pretty good as far as straight, flat, plumb,etc. Chances are if you tack the skirt where it passes they pass the protrusions you’ll have reasonably good results.
    Another option would be to cut thinner material such And as 1/4” or thinner plywood and hot glue together to go from just inside the bottom jambs. You’d have to cut a vertical or plumb cut on the bottom ends first and then tack to the wall. What you’re doing is making a template that you could “fiddle with” until it’s perfect and once achieved take it and transfer the profile to the finished skirt board. I hope this helps.
    Norm

    Reply
  128. Thom Wright

    If you do new construction, this is a tremendous waste of resources.

    Install a 2X4 on the outside bottom edge of the stringer, spacing the stringer 1-1/2″ from the wall. The drywall is installed easily, cutting a single line instead of steps, then the skirt board slides in on top of the drywall. Shim the skirt board to the stringer/rough tread and your done. It’s quick, and it provides a better finish.

    I had to teach this to my framers. The drywallers and finish carpenters were much happier with the work process and the end result. Everyone wins.

    Reply
    • norm yeager

      Thom,
      Scribing skirt boards on new construction jobs has not been done on a regular basis in over 50 years. There are better and more efficient ways to build stairs. The process you described is how I see it done in SC on most houses. For whatever reason shop built stairs have, in years past, been a rarity in SC. In Pa. they were the norm. Scribing the skirts are most useful on renovations and remodels. When you install treads and risers after the skirts you’re staring at the intersecting joints every time you go up the stairs. Any shrinkage or movement shows up. Routing the treads and risers into the stringer, glueing and shimming in place is, in my opinion, a better option. There are instances where scribing the skirt is the best option. Different strokes for different folks.

      Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Scribing skirts in new construction is a technique that has been virtually non existent for 50 years.
      The method you described has, and still is, in SC where I live commonplace for the 25 years I’ve lived here.
      In Pa. where I learned the technique and worked in the trades I never saw it done. The standard in new construction was prefabbed stairs with the treads and risers routed into the stringers.
      In the article I describe the process and the reason I prefer it to your method.
      Neither method is an option with an existing set of stairs with treads and risers in place.
      Unless you remove the treads and risers, install the skirts and then reinstall the treads and risers your method isn’t viable. Most often in existing homes removing the whole flight isn’t an option.
      It’s in these instances where scribing the skirts is a good option.
      I have installed the “retro” treads and risers over existing stairs. In that technique you have a great deal more labor as you’re typically installing 30 individual pieces one at a time and scribing each piece to get a good fit. Add that labor cost to the cost of cutting off all the nosing and buying all the new treads and risers.
      Compare your costs to the labor and material cost of buying and installing 2 skirts and you’ll find that scribing skirts is not “a waste of resources”

      Reply
  129. CP

    Hi Norm,
    An amazing article and the fact that people like me are still commenting and asking questions 9 years later is a testament to a timeless piece. Thanks again.

    My question. It is my first time doing skirting. I have removed carpet and padding and will be installing new risers along with stair treads with a nosing. I’m debating whether I should install the treads and risers first and then the skirts, or do the skirts and then the risers and treads. I’m ok with a jigsaw and am afraid of the round cuts for the nosing referred to in your article. 1) which option would you recommend? 2) I have to place a bullnose on the top most stair as I have laminate starting out immediately after the stairs. Do I just end my skirt at the top of my last riser and not go to the landing with the skirt?

    Thanks in advance for your response.
    CP

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      CP,
      You don’t mention whether you have skirt boards in place now. If you already have them I’d be inclined to leave them and butt the new treads and risers into the skirts.
      Scribing skirts isn’t a terribly difficult technique but it is one where experience over several jobs greatly improves the final result. In your case you only get one try unless you’re willing to invest in new material if your final product doesn’t satisfy you.
      When installing new treads and risers against existing skirts the best fit will be achieved by scribing them individually. If you’re unfamiliar with that process I’ll try to walk you through it.
      There are jigs available for the job or you can make one that will speed the process. Using an adjustable T bevel is another viable option.
      Regarding where to end the skirt at the landing my 1st preference would be to install the skirt so it continues to rise above the nosing until it reaches the height of the baseboard. The article pictures show how this is done.
      If you post a picture of your existing condition I may be able to make a better recommendation.
      I hope this helps
      Norm

      Reply
  130. Norm Yeager

    CP,
    Regarding how far up you should run the skirt. Looking at your 2nd picture at the landing you have the perfect situation to finish it nicely. if you install the baseboard I see on the far wall up to the stairs, do this. Look at the drawing in the article how the skirt is cut to match the height of the base. In your case where your skirt intersects with the flat lower portion of your baseboard that’s where you make a vertical cut on your skirt. Then the cap that’s on your base will install on the top of the skirt and tie into the base at the bottom of the stairs. If you can’t find the exact moulding to match the top of the base, buy enough base and cut the top moulding off on a tablesaw.
    Regarding whether to install the skirts first you have a situation where you could scribe the skirts step by step as per the article. The only thing you wouldn’t be doing is cutting the skirt for the nosing. If it goes well for you you could remove the skirts, install treads and risers and rescribe the skirts. If its a struggle to get it looking good, nothing lost. Leave the skirts in place and butt the treads and risers into the skirts. The new treads and risers will cover up to a minimum of 3/4″ of error.
    I hope I’ve been clear enough for you to proceed confidently.
    Norm

    Reply
    • CP Singh

      Excellent help Norm. I just wanted to show you results of the labor and moreover your advice. Now onto my biggest set of stairs (13 of them). Thank you so much and god bless you!

      Reply
  131. Norm Yeager

    CP,
    What a beautiful job ! Congratulations on a job well done. 1st class.

    Reply
  132. Johnny Laurent

    Norm,

    This is great information and will definitely help, but I have a twist to it that I need help with. My staircase is curved from top to bottom. I am not sure if everything is the same just using flexible baseboard or what. I have not been able to find anyone that could help or wanted to help. Can you help?

    Reply
  133. Norm Yeager

    Johnny,
    I’ve never tried to scribe a skirt on a circular stairs.I’m fairly certain that a 3/4″ skirt won’t bend in against the wall where you’d need to scribe it without kerfing the back side. What I’d do is give it a try with a several step length of 1/4″ plywood and see how it fits. If it fits you could scribe the whole length out of the plywood or kerf 3/4 ” material and go for then whole thing. You’d have to build out the 1/4″ plywood 1/2″ at the wall on the treads and risers and the rake line of the skirt. Cap moulding on the top of the plywood would hide the thinner material. This is an instance where it would have been better to install the skirt first and butt the treads and risers into it. Or, rout the treads and risers into the skirt. I hope this helps.

    Reply
  134. Eric Elison

    Norm,
    I’m a singer-songwriter but not on the road these days as a result of Covid-19. That has left time for home improvements. My next project is the staircase which is currently carpeted, and will soon receive hardwood. Your well written article is a real help.
    Thank you and God bless you and yours,

    Eric Elison
    Colorado Springs, CO

    Reply
  135. Joanna

    Dear,
    Your work is incredible! I am writing from Italy EU. And I wonder if you could help me to replace “oak stick for a scriber ” Can not find it here.
    Any tips instead?
    Kindly,
    Joanna

    Reply
  136. Kathy

    Hi Norm,

    We have a new construction build in which the builder got us to drywall and my husband is finishing the interior. They framed a staircase that is closed on both sides such that the risers and treads come very close to the drywall, i.e. not enough space for a skirt board to be slipped in as is commonly done now. In reading through all the comments, I see this method is not best when the stairs are finished with hardwood, as the potential gap with expansion/contraction can be seen each time someone takes a step and looks down. However, we will be carpeting these stairs.

    Our baseboard is VG hemlock, 1/2″ thick and 5 1/2″ high, so we were thinking we’d continue the 1/2″ thickness with the skirt. I am wondering if you would still advise scribing a skirt board and then installing carpeting? I think it is a crazy idea, but wondered about cutting the edge of each riser and tread to make room for a skirt board to slide in between them and the wall and therefore not needing to scribe? I’m not even sure there is a tool suitable for creating a gap between the drywall and risers/treads and the only approach I could think of is an oscillating multi-tool. It seems like an unwise idea and that we should just use the scribing method, but I was curious about your thoughts in this case. I wasn’t sure which one would be more work and I am all about saving my poor husband any extra work at this point!

    Many thanks for any guidance and advice you can provide. And thank you for all the time you take in helping those of us out here trying to create a home we love.

    Gratefully,
    Kathy

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Kathy,
      Sorry I’m so late in responding. My guess is this project is finished but here are some thoughts. It’s a perfect candidate for scribing the skirt boards. The fact that you’re going to carpet will give you some “grace” if the fits aren’t perfect. I’ve never cut the treads and risers with an oscillating saw but don’t see why it couldn’t be done. One difficulty I foresee with the oscillating saw is if your skirt is 1/2” the cuts on treads and risers would, have to be plumb or tilt back towards the body of the stairwell. Otherwise the skirt will bind on the protruding risers and treads. Of course with enough tries that can be remedied. I would give the scribing method a try. With a good effort I believe you’ll be happy with the results. If the project is complete I’d like to see a picture and your description of what you did. Thanks
      Norm

      Reply
  137. Jared Kaufman

    Just finished my skirt board using this guide, and it came out great! As an amateur carpenter (but growing up in a family of carpenters and house builders) I second-guessed myself every step of the way but there were a few methods I used to help myself:

    1. Metal straight-edges and clamps are your friends. I got razor-straight cuts using a hand saw with a straight-edge held down with clamps to keep me cutting right on the lines.

    1. For the tread noses, I used a coping saw to cut the curve inside the line, then used a 1″ router bit to clean up the curve right to the line. Could probably get the same result with a dremel tool with a drum sanding bit.

    Reply
  138. Ian Rutherford

    Can I get a recommendation on how to go down the stairs with wainscotting to keep the chair rail in the dining room and the stair wainscotting unified? Without a landing, I’m not sure if I should extend the top edge horizontally on the stairs before dropping down the angle.

    Reply
    • Norm Yeager

      Ian,
      Not sure I have the correct idea of what you’re goal is. I see the chair rail, but no wainscoting. If your intent is to add wainscot I believe I’d remove the existing base and chair rail, install the base over the wainscot and chair rail. You may have to rip a filler piece to be flush with the top of chair rail which will serve to cover the vertical ends of the wainscot. Depending how thick the top of the base and the bottom of the chair rail is you could butt the wainscot between both base and chair rail. As far as going down the statistics with the wainscot you can die the wainscot into the top of the skirt or add a cap mounding to match the base over the wainscot. It’s somewhat difficult to describe. If I’ve not been cleat let me know and I’ll give it another try.
      Norm

      Reply
  139. Robert turner

    I used this technique to make skirts for two sets of stairs in my own tri-level home. I removed carpet from stairs that previously had no skirts and replaced with vinyl plank. I have done residential construction on and off for about 6 years. I bought a handful of wooden rulers for my scribing stick, drilled a hole at my measurement and used a pencil to mark my riser and tread lengths. This is the first time I installed skirts in this way. It wasnt too bad. I wanted to say thanks so much for the post and all the comments.

    Reply
  140. Nicholas Patton

    Norm, thanks for the great article. Just completed the cuts on my skirting boards and they fit great w/ the method you describe! One question about fasteners, I see you mention you use 4D nails (which are 1.5”, right) but in your. Diagram the skirting board is only 1-25 -1.5” above tread nosing where we’d nail. Are you only anticipating that the nail penetrate the tread about a 1/4” at the nosing? Is that enough. My distance from skirting board to tread nosing is about 1.5-1.75” and I’m wondering what length finish nail you’d recommend (my treads are 1-1.25” thick). Thanks!

    Regards

    Nicholas

    Reply
  141. Norm Yeager

    Nicholas,
    A half to 3/4” inch penetration into hardwood tread should be sufficient. The skirt is cut to the minimal distance above the nosings so that it will flex into position for a tight fit. You could use a 6d finish nail . In either case 4 or 6 d ,it may be wise to predrill through the skirt just barely less than the diameter of the finish nail. You don’t want the nail to bend and be difficult to reinstall or mar the top edge of the skirt that may be visible after the scotia mounding is in place,.

    Reply
  142. Eric

    Hi,

    I’m about 1/2 way in placing new treads and risers on 12 stairs . No matter how hard I measure, re-measure, etc, I end up with some gaps (not on all of them) of about 1/32-1/16 on the sides to the stringer and about 1/32 behind the tread to the riser. For some reason it does not seem like the stringer is flat at each step. I think they are cupped for some reason. It’s also probably a combination of my skill set and my equipment limitations. I was looking at your article on building a new skirting board. Do you think that is a good option or do you have other suggestions. thank you

    Reply
  143. Norm Yeager

    Eric,
    At this point I wouldn’t scribe new Skirtboards. Your existing skirtboard is cupped, which is not unusual in an older home. I would scribe the end of each tread to the side of the skirtboard it butts into. To fit the back of the treads to the risers start by ripping the back of the treads at a slight bevel, say 5 degrees, so the top of the tread contacts the riser before the portion below touches it. Once you see what the fit looks like scribe the back of the tread and remove whatever is necessary with a sharp block plane. With a little effort it will look like it grew there. If you’re not comfortable with scribing the ends of the treads to the skirtboard you can make a cardboard template and work on it until it’s perfect, then transfer the pattern to your tread. If you’ve never scribed opposite ends of a tread or large window sill I’ll do my best to explain it to you. Just let me know

    Reply
  144. Dave L.

    Thanks for the great lesson Norm,
    Graphics and text are superb.
    I’m creating new skirts for an older staircase, and I think I understand the method, but I’m afraid I’m missing something. My riser heights vary from 8″ to 8 3/8″ , and even my treads vary by as much as a 1/4″. Early in the instructions you wrote “…mark the height of the rise, or slightly more (use the highest riser if there’s a variance) and put a sharpened nail or brad through the stick.” But If I keep using that nail location to scribe all of the subsequent treads, won’t I wind up with gaps in the skirt over treads that have lower risers? I’m sure I’m missing something, but can’t figure out what.
    Thanks for any help you can provide.
    Dave

    Reply
  145. Norm Yeager

    Dave,
    I realize it’s counterintuitive to keep the brad at the highest and widest points of the risers and treads. However, it is what you have to do, otherwise you’re not scribing. It’s no different than any other type of scribing. For instance. If you scribe a countertop to a kitchen wall you set the scriber to the distance at the spot where the top is furtherest from touching the wall. If you scribe a piece of wood / paneling , etc. to a brick or stone fireplace you set the width of the scriber at the spot where it’s furtherest from touching the stone. I’ve “shot” thousands of elevations for heights of footings, columns etc. over 50 years. It’s counterintuitive to think that the lower the number you read on your transit or laser means the higher the elevation is, but hey, that’s the way it works. If you’ll follow the description and resist the urge to stray you’ll have good results, I promise.
    One final story. Many years ago I was hunting with a friend deep in the Pa. forest. It was approaching nightfall and we were headed out to the road at least a mile away. As we were walking we saw another hunter heading right towards us at a fast pace. He was obviously in distress. When we spotted each other I asked him where he was going so close to dark. “To the road “, he said. “You’re headed the wrong way” we said. It took awhile to convince him to follow our lead and things would be ok. The story ended happily, except that none of us had shot a deer.

    Reply
  146. Norm Yeager

    Dave,
    I realize it’s counterintuitive to keep the brad at the highest and widest points of the risers and treads. However, it is what you have to do, otherwise you’re not scribing. It’s no different than any other type of scribing. For instance. If you scribe a countertop to a kitchen wall you set the scriber to the distance at the spot where the top is furtherest from touching the wall. If you scribe a piece of wood / paneling , etc. to a brick or stone fireplace you set the width of the scriber at the spot where it’s furtherest from touching the stone. I’ve “shot” thousands of elevations for heights of footings, columns etc. over 50 years. It’s counterintuitive to think that the lower the number you read on your transit or laser means the higher the elevation is, but hey, that’s the way it works. If you’ll follow the description and resist the urge to stray you’ll have good results, I promise.
    One final story. Many years ago I was hunting with a friend deep in the Pa. forest. It was approaching nightfall and we were headed out to the road at least a mile away. As we were walking we saw another hunter heading right towards us at a fast pace. He was obviously in distress. When we spotted each other I asked him where he was going so close to dark. “To the road “, he said. “You’re headed the wrong way” we said. It took awhile to convince him to follow our lead and things would be ok. The story ended happily, except that none of us had shot a deer.
    Norm

    Reply
  147. Skyler

    Hey Norm thank you for this invaluable write up. I attempted my first retro fit of these stair skirts and ran into a snaffu(which I probably should have realized before I cut). My scribed lines did not meet at the edge of the board. After reading some questions and comments I feel that my issue may have been from not measuring from the highest rise and deepest tread. Any incite would be invaluable. Also how does the rounded edge of the scribe benefit? Thank you again and I look forward your answer. Thanks, Skyler

    Reply
    • Skyler

      Figured it out! My initial measurements for the scribe were too short. Reread your post and similars and worked through my errors. Thanks for the post and saving me valuable time.

      Reply
  148. Norm Yeager

    Skyler,
    You’re headed in the right direction and have correctly diagnosed the problem. Use the highest riser and the longest tread.
    The radius edge of the oak scribe stick is in effect the same as the point of a compass scriber. It provides an exact point of contact. With a metal compass there’s no likelihood of breakage or deformation. With a piece of wood that possibility exists. You use oak rather than pine to keep the scribe point consistent, but a radiused point will follow irregularities/variances more closely than a square or blunt end. Give it another shot, you have this.
    Norm

    Reply
  149. Bruce

    Hi how do I install side kicks on my steps that already installed?having a perfect fit.if there’s gaps what’s the best way to insure a clean finish?

    Reply
  150. Teresa

    Hi Norm,

    Thank you so much for this awesome article! I am about to attempt my 1st skirt board. These are open back stairs on a set of metal stringers (photo attached), no walls, so I will attach through the holes in the stringer with screws then attach outside boards to cover the outside of the stringer with another strip on top and bottom to close it all in. I’m nervous as can be since this is my first attempt. The skirt will be painted white to match other trim in this newly finished basement so I can hopefully cover some imperfections. If you are ever bored (HA HA) and want to head up to Gaston County NC anytime to teach an old dog some new tricks just give me a shout.

    Reply

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